Out of State Home in Probate....

[MillsE]

What is the name of your state? California. The Condo is in Signal Hill Ca. I am in Florida and my brother is in Illinois. The condo in question was our Fathers' and he passed away on November 30, 2022. Straight to the question. Our Father passed away and the condo was left to us. We had gone out to California in December. All appliances were operational and in the condo. We had to wait three months for a Certificate of Death and everything went into probate. I had to go back home as did my brother. We are still in probate, why, I don't quite understand. Small estate, two beneficiaries, and uncontested. No hidden debt and no hidden family. My Brother got a bond and when approved by the Judge we were able to put the condo on the market for sale. It seems the step-sister had no claim to the unit or its contents, not assumed but verbally agreed to when we were all in the same room. Well, we put the condo on the market and I looked at the listing and found that all of the appliances, dishwasher, stove, fridge, washer, and dryer are all gone. When we questioned the sister's husband he stated he was tasked with emptying the unit. By whom we do not know, and he donated the washer and dryer to a charity they can not remember which one though, and the dishwasher they gave to a caregiver... What they did with the stove and fridge I can not say. The unit is dated and needs to be updated but the price on the listing is $20,000.00 less than what was discussed with us and the realtor. Of course, we expected all the appliances to be there. Now it is a dated condo with several open holes in the kitchen.... His response was what is the issue? It's 2 years later....... They moved to Texas shortly thereafter. Around January 2023.
Can we do anything to make him put something back in the holes? Not looking for anything new dent and scratch will work but something?

 

[zddoodah]

I'm going to ask you a lot of questions. They're important. Please answer them individually.

The Condo is in Signal Hill Ca. I am in Florida and my brother is in Illinois. The condo in question was our Fathers' and he passed away on November 30, 2022. Straight to the question. Our Father passed away and the condo was left to us.

1. Did your father hold title to the condo solely in his name? If not, please explain how title was held.
2. What is the fair-market value of the condo?
3. What is the balance of any mortgage(s) against the condo?
4. Did your father have any other significant assets?
5. Sounds like probate started around February 2023. Correct?
6. Whom did the court appoint as personal representative of the estate?
7. Please explain what exactly "the condo was left to us" means. For example, did he have a will that provided, in effect, "title to my condo located at 1234 Hill Street in Signal Hill shall be transferred jointly to my two children"?

My Brother got a bond and when approved by the Judge we were able to put the condo on the market for sale.

So...is your brother the personal representative of the estate? I assume the court required a bond because he's a non-resident of California. Correct?

It seems the step-sister had no claim to the unit or its contents

Who? Your step-sister? Was this a daughter of a woman to whom your father was married at some point?

Well, we put the condo on the market and I looked at the listing and found that all of the appliances, dishwasher, stove, fridge, washer, and dryer are all gone. When we questioned the sister's husband he stated he was tasked with emptying the unit.

Huh? If, as it appears, your brother is the personal representative, didn't he hire a realtor to handle the sale of the condo? Does he have an attorney representing him? There's no way any bonding company would write a PR bond for an out-of-state PR without the PR having a local attorney.

By whom we do not know

So...you contacted this guy and questioned him about what you saw in the listing, and he said "he was tasked with emptying the unit" and you just left it at that? You didn't ask him who tasked him to do it?

the dishwasher they gave to a caregiver

Whose caregiver? Your father's?

The unit is dated and needs to be updated but the price on the listing is $20,000.00 less than what was discussed with us and the realtor.

And when you or your brother called the realtor and asked him/her about this, how did he/she respond?

His response was what is the issue?

His? The stepsister's husband? The realtor?

They moved to Texas shortly thereafter. Around January 2023.

They?

 

[Foamback]

1) was there a will?

2) is this an official small estate? Or was that just shorthand for nothing in particular?

https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/de305.pdf

 

[MillsE]

I'm going to ask you a lot of questions. They're important. Please answer them individually.




1. Did your father hold title to the condo solely in his name? If not, please explain how title was held.
2. What is the fair-market value of the condo?
3. What is the balance of any mortgage(s) against the condo?
4. Did your father have any other significant assets?
5. Sounds like probate started around February 2023. Correct?
6. Whom did the court appoint as personal representative of the estate?
7. Please explain what exactly "the condo was left to us" means. For example, did he have a will that provided, in effect, "title to my condo located at 1234 Hill Street in Signal Hill shall be transferred jointly to my two children"?




So...is your brother the personal representative of the estate? I assume the court required a bond because he's a non-resident of California. Correct?




Who? Your step-sister? Was this a daughter of a woman to whom your father was married at some point?




Huh? If, as it appears, your brother is the personal representative, didn't he hire a realtor to handle the sale of the condo? Does he have an attorney representing him? There's no way any bonding company would write a PR bond for an out-of-state PR without the PR having a local attorney.




So...you contacted this guy and questioned him about what you saw in the listing, and he said "he was tasked with emptying the unit" and you just left it at that? You didn't ask him who tasked him to do it?




Whose caregiver? Your father's?




And when you or your brother called the realtor and asked him/her about this, how did he/she respond?




His? The stepsister's husband? The realtor?




They?

 

[MillsE]

1. Did your father hold title to the condo solely in his name? If not, please explain how title was held. * Jointly wife deceased
2. What is the fair-market value of the condo? * before we knew the appliances were gone 535,000 listed for 495,000
3. What is the balance of any mortgage(s) against the condo?* Reverse Mortgage approximately 200,000 and HOA 7,000
4. Did your father have any other significant assets? * No other significant assets
5. Sounds like probate started around February 2023. Correct? * Correct
6. Whom did the court appoint as personal representative of the estate? * My Brother is the personal representative of the estate
7. Please explain what exactly "the condo was left to us" means. For example, did he have a will that provided, in effect, "title to my condo located at 1234 Hill Street in Signal Hill shall be transferred jointly to my two children"? * As per an in person conversation with my stepsister she stated she was moving to Texas and got her share when her Mother passed. The condo was to be for me and my brother.

So...is your brother the personal representative of the estate? I assume the court required a bond because he's a non-resident of California. Correct?
Yes I believe that is exactly why. He had hired Clear Estates because we are both ignorant about this whole process. They assigned a paralegal and she was to get the bond and she changed her mind they told us and she quit. So my brother got the bond.

Who? Your step-sister? Was this a daughter of a woman to whom your father was married at some point?
Yes our stepsister. She was the daughter of the woman my Father married after he and my Mother divorced.

Huh? If, as it appears, your brother is the personal representative, didn't he hire a realtor to handle the sale of the condo? Does he have an attorney representing him? There's no way any bonding company would write a PR bond for an out-of-state PR without the PR having a local attorney.
Again, the only representation he has is Clear Estates.

So...you contacted this guy and questioned him about what you saw in the listing, and he said "he was tasked with emptying the unit" and you just left it at that? You didn't ask him who tasked him to do it?
I contacted the realtor as an interested buyer of the condo. He was not the one that said he was tasked with emptying the unit that was my stepbrother in law. The realtor said the owner removed them and the only ones in California with keys was my stepsister and her Husband and the unit was unoccupied.

Whose caregiver? Your father's?
Yes. Supposedly. my Father's caregiver.

And when you or your brother called the realtor and asked him/her about this, how did he/she respond?
The realtor had nothing to say about it but when the stepsisters husband was questioned about it he stated he was tasked with emptying the unit... By whom we asked and he said nothing to that but then came back with ... "Its 2 years later, what is the issue"

His? The stepsister's husband? The realtor?
The stepsisters husband.

They?
The stepsister and her Husband.

Thank you in advance for the assistance and time

 

[quincy]

1. Did your father hold title to the condo solely in his name? If not, please explain how title was held. * Jointly wife deceased
2. What is the fair-market value of the condo? * before we knew the appliances were gone 535,000 listed for 495,000
3. What is the balance of any mortgage(s) against the condo?* Reverse Mortgage approximately 200,000 and HOA 7,000
4. Did your father have any other significant assets? * No other significant assets
5. Sounds like probate started around February 2023. Correct? * Correct
6. Whom did the court appoint as personal representative of the estate? * My Brother is the personal representative of the estate
7. Please explain what exactly "the condo was left to us" means. For example, did he have a will that provided, in effect, "title to my condo located at 1234 Hill Street in Signal Hill shall be transferred jointly to my two children"? * As per an in person conversation with my stepsister she stated she was moving to Texas and got her share when her Mother passed. The condo was to be for me and my brother.

So...is your brother the personal representative of the estate? I assume the court required a bond because he's a non-resident of California. Correct?
Yes I believe that is exactly why. He had hired Clear Estates because we are both ignorant about this whole process. They assigned a paralegal and she was to get the bond and she changed her mind they told us and she quit. So my brother got the bond.

Who? Your step-sister? Was this a daughter of a woman to whom your father was married at some point?
Yes our stepsister. She was the daughter of the woman my Father married after he and my Mother divorced.

Huh? If, as it appears, your brother is the personal representative, didn't he hire a realtor to handle the sale of the condo? Does he have an attorney representing him? There's no way any bonding company would write a PR bond for an out-of-state PR without the PR having a local attorney.
Again, the only representation he has is Clear Estates.

So...you contacted this guy and questioned him about what you saw in the listing, and he said "he was tasked with emptying the unit" and you just left it at that? You didn't ask him who tasked him to do it?
I contacted the realtor as an interested buyer of the condo. He was not the one that said he was tasked with emptying the unit that was my stepbrother in law. The realtor said the owner removed them and the only ones in California with keys was my stepsister and her Husband and the unit was unoccupied.

Whose caregiver? Your father's?
Yes. Supposedly. my Father's caregiver.

And when you or your brother called the realtor and asked him/her about this, how did he/she respond?
The realtor had nothing to say about it but when the stepsisters husband was questioned about it he stated he was tasked with emptying the unit... By whom we asked and he said nothing to that but then came back with ... "Its 2 years later, what is the issue"

His? The stepsister's husband? The realtor?
The stepsisters husband.

They?
The stepsister and her Husband.

Thank you in advance for the assistance and time

Was the reverse mortgage paid off after your father’s death, or did the reverse mortgage holder extend the time for full payment of the loan?

 

[Foamback]

So it seems that in Florida JT is not JTWROS. That could mean SIL owns 50% of the real property minus creditors.

Conversations are meaningless. What matters is the laws and the will

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0600-0699/0689/Sections/0689.15.html#:~:text=The 2024 Florida Statutes&text=689.15 Estates by survivorship.,73-300.

 

[quincy]

So it seems that in Florida JT is not JTWROS. That could mean SIL owns 50% of the real property minus creditors.

Conversations are meaningless. What matters is the laws and the will

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0600-0699/0689/Sections/0689.15.html#:~:text=The 2024 Florida Statutes&text=689.15 Estates by survivorship.,73-300.

The state is California, not Florida.

 

[Foamback]

I got lost

 

[quincy]

I got lost

Apparently. It is easy to get lost on the way from California to Florida. Stay on I-40 East.

 

[MillsE]

Reverse Motrgage not paid off that's the 200,000.....

 

[quincy]

Reverse Motrgage not paid off that's the 200,000.....

Did you get an extension on payoff of the loan from the lender?

Typically the heirs of a house with a reverse mortgage will be notified by the lender that the loan was due upon the death of the homeowner and the heirs have a certain number of days to pay the loan in full (possibly through refinance or sale) before foreclosure proceedings can begin. Heirs can offer the deed to the home in lieu of foreclosure but, with the death of your father in November 2022, I am assuming that the lender has not been silent about the loan.

 

[MillsE]

That I don't know but what I'm asking is can the stepsister take the appliances without at the very least say something to us first?

 

[quincy]

That I don't know but what I'm asking is can the stepsister take the appliances without at the very least say something to us first?

She apparently did so, yes, she can. Your task is to find out who authorized her to do that.

Who is named as owner of the property on the real estate listing?

 

[LdiJ]

That I don't know but what I'm asking is can the stepsister take the appliances without at the very least say something to us first?

Probably not, but the situation is still a little unclear as far as who the legal heirs are. However, the bottom line is that the appliances are gone, you aren't getting them back, therefore you either have to sell the house without them or replace them.

This is how it maybe should have gone: Your stepmother died first so the house should have become the sole property of your father if they owned the home jointly with right of survivorship. If your dad died without a will then only you and your brother would have any claim to his estate. Your stepsister would have no claim. If that is the scenario then she would have had no right to even enter the property, let alone remove anything from it without permission from the person administering the estate (that seems to be your brother).

However, it happened. You may or may not have some eventual recourse against your stepsister but nothing could happen quickly. So, you and your brother again, either need to sell the property without appliances or replace the appliances.