Beneficiaries Disadvantages In Probate

[davethewave2021]

CALIFORNIA I, as a beneficiary to my deceased mothers estate, am finding many disadvantages the way the process is handled. The executor has A big advantage making the process unfair. Firstly, the executor, (in my case) has the luxury of paying their attorney through the estate. Where, I have to pay out of pocket. I can't afford an attorney, therefor, I am trying to do this without one. I cannot get bank statements to see if their numbers are correct. How do I know if they are being honest? Because I'm pretty darn sure they're not. Why does this whole process have to be so lopsided? I feel like the underdog.

 

[Zigner]

CALIFORNIA I, as a beneficiary to my deceased mothers estate, am finding many disadvantages the way the process is handled. The executor has A big advantage making the process unfair. Firstly, the executor, (in my case) has the luxury of paying their attorney through the estate. Where, I have to pay out of pocket. I can't afford an attorney, therefor, I am trying to do this without one. I cannot get bank statements to see if their numbers are correct. How do I know if they are being honest? Because I'm pretty darn sure they're not. Why does this whole process have to be so lopsided? I feel like the underdog.

While it's difficult to read your mind, I can only surmise that you feel it's "lopsided" because you don't believe that what you are receiving from the trust is appropriate. You can know if they're being honest by requesting an accounting.
Let me ask you a question: Why should the trustee (not "executor") pay out of pocket for expenses related to the trust?

 

[quincy]

This you, davethewave2021?

Jan. 2024: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/executor-taking-her-sweet-time-california.663825/

Feb. 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/inheriting-a-house.663907/

Apr 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/executor-not-providing-requested-info.664075/

June 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/is-it-a-done-deal-after-distribution.664172/

Did you attempt to do any of what was suggested by forum members that you do to get an accounting from the executor (your sister) prior to distribution?

 

[davethewave2021]

Your statement "You can know if they're being honest by requesting an accounting" I question because the numbers in the accounting are not guaranteed correct. Executors can say there was x amount in bank accounts and I have to take their word for it. Banks refuse to provide me with the numbers so that I can be sure they are not falsifying the totals. I didn't mention they should pay expenses. But not having to pay attorney fees is a huge advantage. Since their attorney fees are paid by the estate doesn't that mean that I'm paying (partially) for their attorney? I mean... It's money deducted from the estate therefor less money to me. When distribution has been done and I can afford an attorney, what course of action is available to me. I'm not happy the way the accounting was done. It's as if there was missing pages. No bank account totals, just the interest made from those accounts. Amounts already deducted are shown again, like it's deducted twice. The executor (my sister) is screwing me. That has been verified by a friend that can find discrepancies better than I.

 

[quincy]

Your statement "You can know if they're being honest by requesting an accounting" I question because the numbers in the accounting are not guaranteed correct. Executors can say there was x amount in bank accounts and I have to take their word for it. Banks refuse to provide me with the numbers so that I can be sure they are not falsifying the totals. I didn't mention they should pay expenses. But not having to pay attorney fees is a huge advantage. Since their attorney fees are paid by the estate doesn't that mean that I'm paying (partially) for their attorney? I mean... It's money deducted from the estate therefor less money to me. When distribution has been done and I can afford an attorney, what course of action is available to me. I'm not happy the way the accounting was done. It's as if there was missing pages. No bank account totals, just the interest made from those accounts. Amounts already deducted are shown again, like it's deducted twice. The executor (my sister) is screwing me. That has been verified by a friend that can find discrepancies better than I.

I get that you don’t trust your sister - but I question the ability of your friend to “verify” anything. When you have the funds available, hire a professional to go over everything. I tend to doubt that any bank would falsify totals.

 

[Zigner]

This you, davethewave2021?

Jan. 2024: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/executor-taking-her-sweet-time-california.663825/

Feb. 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/inheriting-a-house.663907/

Apr 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/executor-not-providing-requested-info.664075/

June 2024:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/is-it-a-done-deal-after-distribution.664172/

Did you attempt to do any of what was suggested by forum members that you do to get an accounting from the executor (your sister) prior to distribution?

Good catch. It's THAT guy.

 

[adjusterjack]

Why does this whole process have to be so lopsided?

Sorry, it's because your mother made it that way be appointing your sister as executor.

 

[quincy]

Good catch. It's THAT guy.

I remembered the username and figured it was unlikely that there would be two different “davethewave”s registered on this forum.

davethewave, you should re-read your other threads as you were given a wealth of information, including what you need to do to get an official accounting and how to challenge the distribution if you find something wrong with the way the estate assets were handled.

One mistake beneficiaries can make is to see a figure like $1.2 million and to start spending this amount in their mind, not understanding that there can be many expenses that reduce that initial estimate significantly.

davethewave has already been provided advances on his expected share of the estate so he will naturally have that advance subtracted from the final distribution.

 

[zddoodah]

This post seems to be more of a rant than any sort of question.

Having the estate pay the executor's attorneys' fees is hardly unique to California or a luxury. The executor has certain duties to account to beneficiaries, but beneficiaries aren't entitled to bank account statements unless they can make an initial showing of wrongdoing. I suggest you consult with a local attorney because there are ways that the attorneys' fees of an objecting beneficiary can be paid from the estate or chargeable to the executor.

 

[quincy]

This post seems to be more of a rant than any sort of question.

Having the estate pay the executor's attorneys' fees is hardly unique to California or a luxury. The executor has certain duties to account to beneficiaries, but beneficiaries aren't entitled to bank account statements unless they can make an initial showing of wrongdoing. I suggest you consult with a local attorney because there are ways that the attorneys' fees of an objecting beneficiary can be paid from the estate or chargeable to the executor.

davethewave said he plans to consult with an attorney once he receives his expected share of the estate. He was previously provided in his other threads information on how to challenge the distribution of assets.

 

[not2cleverRed]

CALIFORNIA I, as a beneficiary to my deceased mothers estate, am finding many disadvantages the way the process is handled. The executor has A big advantage making the process unfair. Where, I have to pay out of pocket. Firstly, the executor, (in my case) has the luxury of paying their attorney through the estate.

The estate lawyer is not the executor's personal lawyer, per se.
The estate lawyer is retained by the executor, as a representative of the estate.

Where, I have to pay out of pocket. I can't afford an attorney, therefor, I am trying to do this without one. I cannot get bank statements to see if their numbers are correct. How do I know if they are being honest? Because I'm pretty darn sure they're not. Why does this whole process have to be so lopsided? I feel like the underdog.

Well, yeah, because you aren't representing the estate. That's how it works. You are apparently trying to compel the executor to provide documentation, because you suspect that you're getting the shaft.

I am currently in a situation similar to your sister's, although things haven't gotten to the point where you are. No matter how transparent I try to be, there are some family members who are just... difficult. (My favorite: people nagging me about property tax and the importance of making sure it's current, forwarding me a copy of the bill from the town... with balance due zero.) So I might have a bit of a chip on my shoulder.

Your mother's final 6 months cost a lot. Apparently your sister was coordinating care. It is possible that a lot of bills came in after your mother passed. Do you have concrete reasons to believe that your sister did not divide the assets in accordance with what your mother's estate planning would have indicated? Or are you thinking that they were siphoning off assets to spend on themselves before your mom's passing? Do you think that too much was spent on your mother's care?

 

[quincy]

The estate lawyer is not the executor's personal lawyer, per se.
The estate lawyer is retained by the executor, as a representative of the estate.



Well, yeah, because you aren't representing the estate. That's how it works. You are apparently trying to compel the executor to provide documentation, because you suspect that you're getting the shaft.

I am currently in a situation similar to your sister's, although things haven't gotten to the point where you are. No matter how transparent I try to be, there are some family members who are just... difficult. (My favorite: people nagging me about property tax and the importance of making sure it's current, forwarding me a copy of the bill from the town... with balance due zero.) So I might have a bit of a chip on my shoulder.

Your mother's final 6 months cost a lot. Apparently your sister was coordinating care. It is possible that a lot of bills came in after your mother passed. Do you have concrete reasons to believe that your sister did not divide the assets in accordance with what your mother's estate planning would have indicated? Or are you thinking that they were siphoning off assets to spend on themselves before your mom's passing? Do you think that too much was spent on your mother's care?

I think he is mostly unhappy that he will not be getting as much as he counted on getting, unaware of the often-high costs of settling an estate. He apparently has centered all of his anger on his sister who probably has been taking her role as executor seriously.

davethewave will want to hire a professional to go over everything, if only so he doesn’t continue to hold onto his resentment of his sister. IF a problem with disbursements is discovered, he can deal with that then.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I think he is mostly unhappy that he will not be getting as much as he counted on getting, unaware of the often-high costs of settling an estate. He apparently has centered all of his anger on his sister who probably has been taking her role as executor seriously.

davethewave will want to hire a professional to go over everything, if only so he doesn’t continue to hold onto his resentment of his sister. IF a problem with disbursements is discovered, he can deal with that then.

Yeah. Well, the people who do the least usually have that attitude.

VOE: even if sis provided a full accounting, he'd probably have issues. I think the money would be better spent on therapy. And maybe some time in a house of worship.

 

[quincy]

… I think the money would be better spent on therapy. And maybe some time in a house of worship.

I think both of those suggestions would be helpful.

 

[AlmostThere]

Just wait until OP realizes the executor is entitled to payment to settle the estate.

OP has no idea how much work and effort it takes to settle an estate, especially one large enough to make it worthwhile to hire your own attorney.