Borrowing from a POA account

What is the name of your state? Illinois.

A close friend is the agent for his elderly neighbor. She has been in a nursing home for a number of years. He maintains her house, car, accounts, pays all bills, etc.

Recently he was talking with her during a visit about buying a house. She offered him the down payment. He didn't think that anything needed to be signed so he thanked her and told her it was a loan, not a gift.

Background on situation with POA:
Lady has zero living relatives. He is her sole caretaker. He has always viewed her as a mother figure and treated her as such which is why she trusts him. He borrowed money one time in all these years but repayed it (small amount, was an emergency situation and it was repaid in a timely manner). He also declared bankruptsy instead of asking her for help when he had serious problems due to ex-wife. This a the type of person he is and relationship they have. He has never taken advantage of her. She has no will.

She no longer remembers the conversation and he has signed a contract to purchase a home. Can he still borrow the down payment for the house? Will he get into trouble in doing so? He doesn't want to do anything illegal but he now is obligated by this contract. She is extremely well off and financially, nothing in her estate will come close to suffering. Her care is top notch and he makes sure she has everything she could possibly need plus some. He also visits her several times a week.

Thank you for any advice you can give.

He needs to consult a family law attorney about his legal responsibilities as a POA. Is he keeping all receipts and providing some type of bookkeeping records to show that he is spending any monies on care for her and not keeping anything for himself? Does he have regular employment elsewhere?

So what if he has signed a contract--it can be easily cancelled. If he wants to be compensated for his services he needs to perhaps consider filing for a guardianship. If the lady is not willing to remember the conversation, does that mean her mental competency is affected or is she as sharp as a tack and maintaining her right not to let anyone take her money?

With him having filed for bankruptcy, there is a strong temptation for him to financially abuse her and he could get in legal trouble for doing so. He would be better off asking her to consider leaving him a gift in her will and then helping her find an attorney to draft her will.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

DreamDancer said:

She no longer remembers the conversation and he has signed a contract to purchase a home. Can he still borrow the down payment for the house?

Click to expand...

Simple answer... NO!!
Unless he gets her WRITTEN permission (notarized to protect himself further), he has NO legal right to HER funds. If he takes them.... he can be charged with a CRIMINAL offense.

Will he get into trouble in doing so?

Click to expand...

If he gets caught, yes.

He doesn't want to do anything illegal but he now is obligated by this contract.

Click to expand...

Then he shouldn't have signed the contract.

She is extremely well off and financially, nothing in her estate will come close to suffering. Her care is top notch and he makes sure she has everything she could possibly need plus some. He also visits her several times a week.

Click to expand...

And of course, none of that is relevant to this potential THEFT.

To DandyDon: He keeps every receipt with her accounts. As I said, he used the account only one time and that was an emergency and he had her permission first. And it was repaid. He is very much employed and has been for over 25 years. He has never taken advantage of her and never will. Just because he filed bankruptcy does not mean he is tempted. He has been her agent for many years by the way and other than the emergency the one time, has never used a dime of her money for anything or anyone but her. He has never concidered her leaving him anything. Not something he thought about. He doesn't like the thought of the state getting everything she worked so hard for. He wants her to leave it to charity since she has no family.

My friend is the type that will do anything for a friend and ask nothing in return. Just a really good guy. That is why his now ex-wife was able to take advantage of him. He never takes but is a giver. Few like him exist anymore.

Thank you for your very polite and concise answer.

JETX: You are kind of rude. You could have given your answer without the caps and insinuation. I understand what you are saying but there are better ways of giving a message.

DreamDancer said:

JETX: You are kind of rude. You could have given your answer without the caps and insinuation. I understand what you are saying but there are better ways of giving a message.

Click to expand...

Gee... sorry. Thought you were an adult... and not a 3rd grader.

I am an adult and I was taught to talk to people, even people that are rude and disrespectful, with courtesy.

When trying to get a message across to someone, it is better to not put them on the defensive by being disrespectful. Kindness and courtesy go a long way. I will give him DandyDon's answer. I am glad to hear that the contract is not binding apparently.

You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Oh and I know that I am new here but that does not give anyone the right to talk down to me. I have been nothing but respectful.

DreamDancer said:

I am an adult and I was taught to talk to people, even people that are rude and disrespectful, with courtesy.

When trying to get a message across to someone, it is better to not put them on the defensive by being disrespectful. Kindness and courtesy go a long way. I will give him DandyDon's answer. I am glad to hear that the contract is not binding apparently.

You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Oh and I know that I am new here but that does not give anyone the right to talk down to me. I have been nothing but respectful.

Click to expand...

As a person who wears numerous "fiduciary hats," JETX is 100% in his answer. He was not being rude. He put things in caps to emphasis points.

Furthermore, just exactly who would you think is better qualified in their responses, JETX (who is an attorney) or Dandy Don who is not and makes a lot mistakes in his replies regarding fiduciaries?

This elderly lady's compacity to sign anything is questionable. Just wait until she dies and relatives come crawling out of the woodwork, find out what has been done, and start a lawsuit for elder abuse (financial exploitation).

Dandy don is an attorney.

msiron said:

Dandy don is an attorney.

Click to expand...

No, no, no, he is not. You misread my post.

Dandy Don said:

So what if he has signed a contract--it can be easily cancelled....

Click to expand...

DreamDancer --- ...I am glad to hear that the contract is not binding apparently.

Click to expand...

Uh oh! The "apparently" part of that will likely become very apparent shortly.

BlondiePB said:

This elderly lady's compacity to sign anything is questionable.

Click to expand...

Compacity?

Compacity... compacity... Yes, yes, I like it. Rolls off the tongue nicely.

anteater said:

Compacity?

Compacity... compacity... Yes, yes, I like it. Rolls off the tongue nicely.

Click to expand...

Thanks for noticing & the feedback. It was intentionally not changed by me. We have another new word.

I thank you all very much. I am not familiar with the laws pertaining to this situation. When he said that she didn't remember, I asked him if she has Altzheimers. She has never been diagnosed with it and her doctors say she does not have it. I also asked if he spoke with the attorney that handled the POA originally. I will ask that one again.

I went through and read the Illinois Statute. I also got an education from it. He trusts my opinion and I am going to advise him that it is a bad idea even if she does sign it and have it notarized. The fact that forgot the conversation raises too many red flags.

Thank you all again for your time and advise.

msiron said:

Dandy don is an attorney.

Click to expand...

'Dandy Dunce' is NOT an attorney. He calls himself a 'researcher' (in several posts on other forums) and tries to locate unclaimed property or missing heirs, then tries to get the real property owner or heir to pay him a 'finders fee' for his 'discovery'. His real first name is Keith (to protect his anononity, I won't provide his last name, address, phone, etc.). In fact, if he did that in his own state, he would very likely be a violation of his states Private Investigator licensing laws (since he isn't licensed to provide those 'services').

Pretty scummy business if you ask me.

JETX said:

'Dandy Dunce' is NOT an attorney. He calls himself a 'researcher' (in several posts on other forums) and tries to locate unclaimed property or missing heirs, then tries to get the real property owner or heir to pay him a 'finders fee' for his 'discovery'. His real first name is Keith (to protect his anononity, I won't provide his last name, address, phone, etc.). In fact, if he did that in his own state, he would very likely be a violation of his states Private Investigator licensing laws (since he isn't licensed to provide those 'services').

Pretty scummy business if you ask me.

Click to expand...

Well now that is scarey. JETX, I just didn't like the caps and insinuation is all. I didn't doubt what you were saying. I was ticked because I felt talked down to and that made me defensive.

I spoke with my friend and he is not going to persue this. And he did speak with her attorney and he (the attorney) said it was ok as long as they (the attorney and friend) got a notarized statement from her so that advise was, of course, right on the money.

Is there a guide on here as to who is really an attorney and who is not?