A/C leak covered?

[LauraG3]

What is the name of your state?California
I have an old central a/c unit at my condo. One part is on the roof, the other part in my laundry rm. The unit has been working well, with no serious problems, and my brother helps maintain the unit each year. One day I noticed water on our laminate flooring outside the laundry room, appearing to come up betw the flooring slats (water underneath). I looked inside the laundry room, found no water on tile floor. Then looked behind the laundry room door where the a/c unit is located and saw that it was dripping water, with some rusty water rolling down the side. Turned off the a/c and called my home warranty company to come out and fix it. Two days later they were out and told me that the a/c drain pan had cracked and that that was the source. (Drain pan on this unit can’t be replaced..Entire unit needs to be replaced.) I then contacted my homeowner condo insurer AAA and an adjuster came out 3 days later. With each passing day, I noticed my flooring was separating. AAA adjuster said they’d looked at my condo CC&Rs and master policy dec page and it appeared Farmers (HOA insurer) was primary insurer. I then called our HOA’s mgmt company and told them what AAA said. HOA mgmt said it’s personal property, not covered by HOA, but they would check with their Farmers agent. It took them over TWO weeks to finally get ahold of their Farmers agent, who said it was most likely not covered and would be denied by Farmers. AAA immediately contacted the Farmers agent and pointed out the section of our CC&R’s stating A/C unit is covered under master policy. Farmers agent then said they’d submit the claim. It’s now been nearly 3 weeks and my flooring has gotten much worse.

My question is: After all this, is Farmers most likely to deny the claim as not being considered a “sudden or accidental” occurrence? I’m worried that they’ve caused me more floor damage (and possibly mold) with all the delayed response, only for me to then end up having no remedy thrrough either insurance company (Farmers or even my own, AAA) due to that “sudden or accidental” provision in policies. ANY INPUT would be so greatly appreciated!! Thank you in advance.

 

[xylene]

Input: contact a different HVAC guy who can repair the pan. It's a piece of sheet metal held in place with spot welds. Remove the pan and replace it with a rubber or plastuc one. I'm not talkin mumbo jumbo.

Get some industrial blowers and a dehumidifier for the moisture.

 

[xylene]

Also: the damage caused by continuing to operate the leaking AC is not going to be covered.

 

[FlyingRon]

To expand on what X has said. Your insurance will likely cover the damage to the house from the leak. It won't cover fixing the unit itself NOR will it continue to cover your failure to mitigate the problem.

As X says, AC condensate lines/pans are not an uncommon problem. Actually, a new mental pan is just fine in my opinion. There are better piping systems to avoid clogs on the market now than there were ten years ago. If you have a pump in the system, most of them now have a second float switch that can be used to shutoff the unit if the pump fails (or something blocks the outlet).

 

[HRZ]

Aside : The overall efficiency of an older a/c may be significantly lower than new one and a new unit is a good long term solution .

I have been able to extend the life of many a sheet metal pan with some of the liquid roof sealing products, after I got the metal somewhat clean....and some of the newer thin roof ice/water shield sure sticks and can be neatly trimmed to fit for a TEMPORARY fix.

 

[LauraG3]

Also: the damage caused by continuing to operate the leaking AC is not going to be covered.

Thank you, Xylene. I turned off the a/c as soon as I noticed the leak.

 

[xylene]

It’s now been nearly 3 weeks and my flooring has gotten much worse.

Turned off air conditioners don't keep leaking condensation into your floor 3 weeks later.

Perhaps there is another problem. I urge you to get a professional to figure out why your floors are still wet from beneath.

 

[LauraG3]

Input: contact a different HVAC guy who can repair the pan. It's a piece of sheet metal held in place with spot welds. Remove the pan and replace it with a rubber or plastuc one. I'm not talkin mumbo jumbo.

Get some industrial blowers and a dehumidifier for the moisture.

Thank you, Xylene! I just purchased a good dehumidifier, thanks to your recommendation. The service contractor that was sent out by my home warranty company (who denied my claim for repair) told me that the failure leak was caused by three things: (1) cracked drain pan (2) missing pi-trap and (3) missing air gap... and they concluded that all of that was due to lack of maintenance. The system was installed when the condo was built in 1981. I don’t understand how they say I should have installed these parts to avoid the cracked drain pan. Is that true? It’s worked beautifully for 37 years, so I should have gotten in there and installed those parts (which the unit did not come with) to prevent this unforeseen incident? Ugh!

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

In that 37 years have you ever had maintenance done?

 

[LauraG3]

To expand on what X has said. Your insurance will likely cover the damage to the house from the leak. It won't cover fixing the unit itself NOR will it continue to cover your failure to mitigate the problem.

As X says, AC condensate lines/pans are not an uncommon problem. Actually, a new mental pan is just fine in my opinion. There are better piping systems to avoid clogs on the market now than there were ten years ago. If you have a pump in the system, most of them now have a second float switch that can be used to shutoff the unit if the pump fails (or something blocks the outlet).

Thank you, Flying Ron. I’ve just been reading on the internet that most insurance companies deny on the basis that water damage was NOT caused by a “sudden or accidental” leak. Maybe I just got overly worried on that issue?
... Regarding failure to mitigate, I did everything in a timely manner: turned a/c off, dried everything, aired it out, immediately contacted my insurer AAA, and after AAA sent the HOA mgmt notice that the HOA was the primary insurer on this, I then had to send repeated emails to my HOA’s mgmt demanding they file the claim with the their insurer Farmers... The frustration shared by myself and my homeowners insurer AAA is that it took nearly 3 wks for Farmers to then open a claim. AAA said they’ve never seen that kind of delay before, thatbit was “outrageous.” Doesn’t Farmers (and the HOA mgmt) have a duty to respond in a timely manner to mitigate my damages as well??

This is a 37-yr old split heat pump a/c unit made by Rheem.

 

[LauraG3]

Turned off air conditioners don't keep leaking condensation into your floor 3 weeks later.

Perhaps there is another problem. I urge you to get a professional to figure out why your floors are still wet from beneath.

Xylene, I wasn’t clear in my response. I turned it off and, since then, I see no signs of water. However, all the water WAS originally coming up from under the floor. I’ll get another guy to come out and ck to make sure it’s not still leaking under the floors, though. Thx!!!

 

[LauraG3]

In that 37 years have you ever had maintenance done?

Yes. However, in the last 4 years, it was done by my brother.. filter replacement, checking Freon, checking thermostat and checking for any leaks. He never vacuumed it out, though.. Maybe he should have?

 

[LauraG3]

Aside : The overall efficiency of an older a/c may be significantly lower than new one and a new unit is a good long term solution .

I have been able to extend the life of many a sheet metal pan with some of the liquid roof sealing products, after I got the metal somewhat clean....and some of the newer thin roof ice/water shield sure sticks and can be neatly trimmed to fit for a TEMPORARY fix.

Yes, we’ll need a new higher-efficient system.. just didn’t expect it right now
American Home Shield (my home service company) has partnered up with their service contractor (a/c company) to offer 3 replacement options at what they say is considerable discount. Havent started shopping to compare price/value, but these are the 3 split heat pump options offered: (1) Goodman 14 SEER, $6,700, (2) Goodman 16 SEER, $8,200, and (3) Bryant by Carrier 16 Seer, $8,257. Any thoughts on these??

 

[adjusterjack]

Couple of comments from the guy that did these kind of claims for a living.

1 - The AC unit may be covered by the master policy but it's present malfunction is due to wear and tear so its replacement or its repair is not going to be covered by the master policy unless the master policy has Equipment Breakdown coverage. Equipment Breakdown is typically purchased as an optional endorsement. Here is a sample form used by the insurance industry so you have an idea what to look for when you check on the master policy.

http://www.eqgroup.com/Pdf/HSB_EquipmentBreakdownForm6671.pdf

2 - If the policy doesn't cover it the next issue is whether it is a "unit" item or "common element." Even if the CC&Rs say it's covered by the master policy for insurance purposes, it could still be defined as a "unit" item which means you get to pay for its replacement if it's not damaged by an insured peril. Check that in the CC&Rs.

3 - The next thing to check in the CC&Rs is whether your flooring is "unit" or "common element." Laminate flooring that was not part of the original construction is generally "unit" and not "common element." That means that repairs to the top layer would be for you to pay for and repairs to the underlayment and joists would be for the HOA to pay for.

I've done many, many hundreds of condo water damage claims and the "fact pattern" that you are experiencing is typical of condos and condo associations. There will be more delays and more finger pointing and you might end up being out a great deal of money.

 

[LauraG3]

Aside : The overall efficiency of an older a/c may be significantly lower than new one and a new unit is a good long term solution .

I have been able to extend the life of many a sheet metal pan with some of the liquid roof sealing products, after I got the metal somewhat clean....and some of the newer thin roof ice/water shield sure sticks and can be neatly trimmed to fit for a TEMPORARY fix.

Yes, I’ll need a new high-efficiency system. American Home Shield (my home service company) has joined up with their service contractor (a/c company) to offer 3 replacement options at what they say is considerable discount. Havent started shopping to compare price/value, but these were the 3 split heat pump options offered: (1) Goodman 14 SEER,

Couple of comments from the guy that did these kind of claims for a living.

1 - The AC unit may be covered by the master policy but it's present malfunction is due to wear and tear so its replacement or its repair is not going to be covered by the master policy unless the master policy has Equipment Breakdown coverage. Equipment Breakdown is typically purchased as an optional endorsement. Here is a sample form used by the insurance industry so you have an idea what to look for when you check on the master policy.

http://www.eqgroup.com/Pdf/HSB_EquipmentBreakdownForm6671.pdf

2 - If the policy doesn't cover it the next issue is whether it is a "unit" item or "common element." Even if the CC&Rs say it's covered by the master policy for insurance purposes, it could still be defined as a "unit" item which means you get to pay for its replacement if it's not damaged by an insured peril. Check that in the CC&Rs.

3 - The next thing to check in the CC&Rs is whether your flooring is "unit" or "common element." Laminate flooring that was not part of the original construction is generally "unit" and not "common element." That means that repairs to the top layer would be for you to pay for and repairs to the underlayment and joists would be for the HOA to pay for.

I've done many, many hundreds of condo water damage claims and the "fact pattern" that you are experiencing is typical of condos and condo associations. There will be more delays and more finger pointing and you might end up being out a great deal of money.[/QUOTE

Thank you for your input!!!
.....Yes, all the darn fingerpointing!! I have 2 arguments going on right now.. The one with American Home Shield for the A/C unit (which they’ve denied on grounds of lack of maintenance__cracked drain pan) and the other for the flooring loss (in dispute betw my insurance and the HOA’s). HOA’s master policy dec page says “This is a walls in policy and includes improvements and betterments, and my insurer AAA points out language in the CC&R’s to support that it pertains to the A/C units. I was a board member on a different HOA for over 15 years, and never thought this was a valid argument in support of HOA responsibility for such loss, but AAA makes the case that it might be in this case. It’s sickeningly bad news if I not only have to replace my A/C unit ($8k?) but also my entire unit’s flooring, since no longer available (estimated at $12-$16k). UGH!! What good is having all of this insurance and a home service contract w coverage for a/c’s when it comes to leaks, if it’s so easy for everyone to wiggle their way out of any responsibility?