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Accidental Enrollment in Dependent Care FSA

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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
A limited purpose FSA is a health FSA. It's the kind of FSA that you get when you elect a High Deductible Health Plan with an HSA. Federal law prohibits you having a full-purpose FSA and an HSA in the same calendar year. A limited-purpose FSA can only be used for dental or vision expenses.

What kind of health plan did you elect? If a HDHP, did you also elect an HSA?
 


BMB

Junior Member
It seems to me, (please correct me if I'm wrong) that two things have happened here. First, you made a mistake in the sign up process. But this is the very reason why companies have HR departments with people who are supposed to be knowledgeable in employment and tax law. To ensure neither the company nor the employee violates these laws. Which brings me to the second thing. Your HR department has obviously failed you in this regard. Dependant care FSAs cut off at the age of 13 unless you're dependants are mentally or physically handicapped. Now this money being deducted from your paycheck is deducted pre-tax. As well as being deducted for a benefit you are not even eligible for. It seems to me that either you or your employer (or both) are in violation of federal tax laws. Because you obviously won't be able to access these funds, your employer will simply absorb them at the end of the year. I don't know if they must pay the taxes on this money after the fact or not. But the money is certainly not being used for its intended purpose. Your employer is blatantly ripping you off and and because you are not even eligible for this program they are doing it illegally.
 

stope265

Junior Member
A limited purpose FSA is a health FSA. It's the kind of FSA that you get when you elect a High Deductible Health Plan with an HSA. Federal law prohibits you having a full-purpose FSA and an HSA in the same calendar year. A limited-purpose FSA can only be used for dental or vision expenses.

What kind of health plan did you elect? If a HDHP, did you also elect an HSA?
It could be a HDHP plan, but none of the literature refers to the two choices that I had as a HDHP. I chose the "Health Management Plan (HRA)". (The other option was "Health Investment Plan (HSA)".) I've never had a HRA plan before, so I'm learning about it. I received a card in the mail that I was told is linked to three accounts: a FSA, the Dependent Care FSA and a HSA (which has a zero balance). I never selected to participate in the Healthcare FSA; it happened automatically for the max contribution of $2000. In looking at the enrollment screen benefit choices both times, only the Limited FSA was listed as an option, and it showed that it was waived, without any option to edit. The DCFSA was listed as well. When I got to the summary page, the Healthcare FSA showed that it was already selected with the max contribution and no option for me to edit anything. (I can survive with this since I know that I can use that money for myself and my kids as you noted earlier.)

I've experienced the HRA portion of this plan already by receiving reimbursement checks for medical expenses that my kids have incurred that I paid for out of pocket. However, I still don't quite understand how this works, and I cannot locate the details about this plan on any of the three websites. I'm going to keep digging for information over the weekend, and look forward to your input on Monday.
 

stope265

Junior Member
It seems to me, (please correct me if I'm wrong) that two things have happened here. First, you made a mistake in the sign up process. But this is the very reason why companies have HR departments with people who are supposed to be knowledgeable in employment and tax law. To ensure neither the company nor the employee violates these laws. Which brings me to the second thing. Your HR department has obviously failed you in this regard. Dependant care FSAs cut off at the age of 13 unless you're dependants are mentally or physically handicapped. Now this money being deducted from your paycheck is deducted pre-tax. As well as being deducted for a benefit you are not even eligible for. It seems to me that either you or your employer (or both) are in violation of federal tax laws. Because you obviously won't be able to access these funds, your employer will simply absorb them at the end of the year. I don't know if they must pay the taxes on this money after the fact or not. But the money is certainly not being used for its intended purpose. Your employer is blatantly ripping you off and and because you are not even eligible for this program they are doing it illegally.
BMB - EXACTLY! You sure summed this up for me. I obviously made some sort of mistake when signing up, either by hitting the wrong button or missing a default setting, or something. For a full month, I kept making attempts to meet with my plant HR lady, but she was either tied up in meetings or I would get called back onto the plant floor. Then the company laid her off, so the only HR contacts were out of state and not helpful at all. I probably wouldn't be in this position if my person was not let go. I couldn't understand why they never questioned this to begin with since all documents list the ages of my kids, but I was really upset when I pointed out their ineligibility for the DCFSA and was treated like some sort of criminal! (I have a witness that heard the whole conversation, too. He was shocked! It was bad.) I feel violated, and as mentioned in previous posts, I'm now stressed out about failing to pay my basic living expenses, house, lights, water, etc. When I was in the black financially, I'm now in the red after depleting my emergency fund and now I have no disposable income. I cringe at the thought of the holidays. Thanks for you comments. I'm hoping that "cbg" will be able to help me "speak the language" that the company HR department will understand and get them to fix this!
 

stope265

Junior Member
Additionally, I'm curious to hear cbg's thoughts on the possible tax law violations, or just outright fraud on the company's part. I'm really bothered that I find myself in a battle with my new employer, but this is just unreal, and for me, unprecedented. :(
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Not seeing any tax violations or fraud here. As I said, it's not the way my employer would handle it and it's certainly not the way I would want to see any employer handle it, but they are on reasonably firm ground legally.
 

stope265

Junior Member
Not seeing any tax violations or fraud here. As I said, it's not the way my employer would handle it and it's certainly not the way I would want to see any employer handle it, but they are on reasonably firm ground legally.
That just seems so strange to me. How can withholding money from someone to fund a benefit that they and their dependents are not eligible to receive be legal? Especially when it was so obviously an honest mistake? I guess it's a moot point at this juncture, so please forgive the frustration that is leaking through on this thread. I've never had to deal with something like this before. My goal is to GET OUT of this plan ASAP, if possible because it's like watching someone throw my money into a fire pit every week. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. The more that I dig into this, the more questions I have. :(
 

BMB

Junior Member
I find myself somewhat lost on the notion that there is no illegality in this situation. The IRS rules on a dependant FSA are very straightforward. Your dependence must be under 13 years old or be mentally or physically handicapped to the point of being unable to care for themselves. From what you have said, you clearly do not fit this criteria, yet your employer seems adamant on keeping you locked into a program you are not eligible for as per IRS rules. I see no other agenda here other than your company simply wants to steal your money. I would contact the IRS and see what they have to say about this.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Believe me, I don't blame you in the least for being frustrated.

I'm going to explain the reasoning here. Keep in mind I am explaining to you why LEGALLY there is no fraud or violation here. I'm not saying I don't see the justice in your position - I do. As I've indicated, my employer would let you fix it, and I suspect you're right that if the HR professional who left had not left, you wouldn't be in this position. However, what I would do is not binding on your employer.

IRS regulations are very strict on any pre-tax benefit. There can occasionally be some wiggle room on post-tax benefits but on any kind of pre-tax benefit the lines are very tightly drawn. And they are checked on. It is not a question of if an employer's pre-tax records will be checked; it is a question of when they will be checked. And if the auditor finds that the employer is not following the regulations, the entire plan, for the entire company, can be placed in jeopardy. Their right to offer a (in this case, FSA) can be withdrawn and all the employees who do want it, lose the benefit. This is stage one.

Stage two; ultimately, it is your responsibility to know what benefits you need/want and to make appropriate elections. It is not the responsibility of the employer to oversee your benefits and tell you what is and is not appropriate. You are supposed to make the appropriate elections off the bat. There are always going to be mistakes that occur, but the position the law takes is not that you must be allowed to make corrections; you may be allowed to make corrections in some cases and at some times. Also, the window to make those corrections tends to be very short. In your case, if your employer's plan is standard, the window to make the correction with minimal risk was up before you had even noticed the mistake yet.

Stage three, putting the first two together; Your employer is holding a tight line on the regulations regarding a pre-tax benefit. While you may be allowed to make the correction, they are not required to allow you to make it, and they *could* be held liable for a legal violation if they do. Whether they would or not depends on how tight a line the auditor took. I doubt that the right to offer an FSA would be withheld for a single violation of this type, but it is not at all outside the realm of possibility that they'd be fined.

I want to give you a couple of examples of the sorts of things we're dealing with. Some years ago at a different employer I was trying to write a policy about a benefit that is managed at the state level, and we had employees in two states. My state required that we manage it one way (which was better for the employees) and the other state gave us the freedom to choose whether to manage it that way or another way (which was more favorable to the employer). My CEO and COO wanted us to do it the second way, and I kept trying to explain to them that they way they wanted to do it was illegal in my state. Finally, in desperation, I called my state DOL, explained my problem, and asked if there was any way I could write the policy the way the CEO wanted and still be in compliance with state law. They summed it up thusly to me: "As you know, state law requires that you do X, and your upper management wants to do Y. As long as you also do Z, we will look the other way if your policy says Y, unless one of your employees complains to the us. If they do, we will have to find in favor of the employee since the law requires you do X and not Y. But in the absence of a formal complaint, we will pretend we don't see you doing Y as long as you do Z." In your case, X is holding the straight line as the employer is doing; allowing you to make a correction is Y plus Z - something they will pretend they don't see as long as it doesn't get caught in an audit.

Another example, this one on the point of individual responsibility; just this week I worked on a case where an employee was told what action he had to take to drop a (pre-tax) benefit. He was told, in writing, what materials we needed and what the time frame was to do it. The window in which to take action was 30 days. He applied for the material he needed, but had it sent to the wrong address, never followed up to see if it was received, never took the follow up action he was told he would have to do. But 37 days later, he called to find out why he was still being billed for the benefit. We did not allow him to make the correction - it was HIS responsibility to follow up. Now in your case, I know that you DID follow up; I'm not making the comparison for that reason. You did everything you could as soon as you knew. No, my point is that you did make the mistake in the first place. Innocently, I know - I'm not holding you at fault for a mistake. But if your employer allowed you to make a correction and then later on they had another employee like mine, who didn't do anything and then expected everyone else to bail him out, how would they justify a refusal with you as a precedent? You're looking at it very personally, which is quite normal, and why wouldn't you? But your employer has to look at the overall picture. With all of that in mind, can you see why it is not fraud or a legal violation to refuse to allow you to make a correction?

Again, I think your employer is pulling the line somewhat too strictly in this case. But do you understand why, when looking at the larger issue, it's not a legal violation or fraud on their part?
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I find myself somewhat lost on the notion that there is no illegality in this situation. The IRS rules on a dependant FSA are very straightforward. Your dependence must be under 13 years old or be mentally or physically handicapped to the point of being unable to care for themselves. From what you have said, you clearly do not fit this criteria, yet your employer seems adamant on keeping you locked into a program you are not eligible for as per IRS rules. I see no other agenda here other than your company simply wants to steal your money. I would contact the IRS and see what they have to say about this.
You don't administer benefits for a living, do you?

I do.
 

BMB

Junior Member
This would be akin to me trying to add my girlfriend to my insurance policy as a spouse when girlfriends are clearly not eligible. If a mistake was made that blatantly violates IRS or insurance policy rules, and the HR department knowingly allows it, and even refuses to correct it, surely there must be some culpability there. They are, after all, the only entity with the power to correct it.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
You don't administer benefits for a living, do you?

I do.
I certainly know that you do, and I have utter respect for your knowledge base. However, I will say that some HR professionals, and therefore some companies, will attribute IRS rules that simply do not exist.

For example, one thing that I can say for certain is that the IRS ALWAYS allows errors to be corrected. Its not in limited circumstances or anything else. Errors are ALWAYS allowed to be corrected. The problem is that in some circumstances, the process for correcting the error may be very cumbersome to the employer therefore they may opt out of/or attempt to opt out of making those corrections. Plus, its actually to the employer's benefit to make an FSA a default situation and refuse to correct it after, as FSAs are "use it or lose it".

One thing I can tell you for certain, is that any correction an employer makes, as long as its well documented is not going to cause an employer any grief with the IRS in an audit. The IRS expects that occasional mistakes will happen and expects them to be corrected.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
(I figured you'd be here sooner or later telling me I'm wrong.)

And I have been saying from the beginning of the thread that the employer can allow this correction. Show me where I've said that they cannot. I think they should; I hope they do; and I am going to give the OP everything I can to help that outcome occur.

However, it is also true that they do not have to allow it. I have personally been involved in situations where the employer has been fined for not following the rules to the letter and for making corrections too late after the fact. So I continue to maintain that the employer is on firm ground in not allowing it at this point.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
(I figured you'd be here sooner or later telling me I'm wrong.)

Now see, that statement was just tacky because I only disagree with you once in a while and when I do, about taxes, which is my area of expertise.

And I have been saying from the beginning of the thread that the employer can allow this correction. Show me where I've said that they cannot. I think they should; I hope they do; and I am going to give the OP everything I can to help that outcome occur.

However, it is also true that they do not have to allow it. I have personally been involved in situations where the employer has been fined for not following the rules to the letter and for making corrections too late after the fact. So I continue to maintain that the employer is on firm ground in not allowing it at this point.
I will acknowledge that making a correction too far after the fact can be a potential issue. However you are truly wrong that its the employer's option whether or not to make a timely correction. In this scenario any correction was truly timely.

However, the point that I am making here is that I am sure that your training indicates that corrections are only available in limited circumstance, but in reality, timely corrections are not only allowed by the IRS, but actively encouraged.
 

stope265

Junior Member
I'm very thankful to the both of you! This information is truly helpful, and despite the crappy circumstances, I'm glad that I found this forum.
 

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