Almost 80 and they sell her a car!!!!!

[BlondiePB]

Corrine,
Have you been able to contact this lady's family? Also, have this lady call Social Security and have direct deposit stopped. When she opens an account at another bank, other than Key Bank, she can re-establish the direct deposit. This lady needs to do her banking at another bank because they, the "scam artists," have the lady's info that enables them to access any account that she has at Key bank.

 

[Veronica1228]

Corrine,
Have you been able to contact this lady's family? Also, have this lady call Social Security and have direct deposit stopped. When she opens an account at another bank, other than Key Bank, she can re-establish the direct deposit. This lady needs to do her banking at another bank because they, the "scam artists," have the lady's info that enables them to access any account that she has at Key bank.

Hey BlondiePB. Nice to run into you in a thread outside of WOW, but I'm afraid I have to disagree. If Esther opens a new account at Key Bank it will have a different account number, and a new debit card. Unless Key Bank links the old account or card to the new account purposely, it should be okay.

Having said that, however, I would switch banks for an entirely different reason. Key Bank is dropping the ball and not doing everything in their power to help get the funds back. You need a better bank that you can depend on.

 

[BlondiePB]

Veronica, please re-read. You'll see the following by me:

When she opens an account at another bank, other than Key Bank, she can re-establish the direct deposit. This lady needs to do her banking at another bank because ....

OP came back today with no further response. She's doing a good thing, but she's doing it without proper legal authorization and that can come back and "bite" her.

I don't know about CA, but here it won't cost $10,000.00 for a guardianship unless there is a very contested case. Since Esther has no money, it will cost nothing in WA to have her evaluated for her competency except time. Like what IAAL did say, competent elders do have the right to make decisions regarding their finances - even ones not in their own best interest.

 

[Rainier]

Corrine,
Have you been able to contact this lady's family? Also, have this lady call Social Security and have direct deposit stopped. When she opens an account at another bank, other than Key Bank, she can re-establish the direct deposit. This lady needs to do her banking at another bank because they, the "scam artists," have the lady's info that enables them to access any account that she has at Key bank.

Blondie, that's the first thing I did when we got back from the bank last Thursday after being told that the SS payment just received couldn't/wouldn't be released because her account was now overdrawn.

She's now got a new account with Venture and SS will be paying her money in there in future.

I've also changed her telephone number.

One daughter has been contacted - neither of the others have bothered call me back but she's in agreement for me to have some limited power of attorney - purely to try and prevent this from happening again (guess it saves her bothering too ).

Hey BlondiePB. Nice to run into you in a thread outside of WOW, but I'm afraid I have to disagree. If Esther opens a new account at Key Bank it will have a different account number, and a new debit card. Unless Key Bank links the old account or card to the new account purposely, it should be okay.

Veronica,

Given that this was the third time since November that Esther has fallen foul of the Telemarkers, it was Key Bank themselves who suggested she use a different Bank.

On the first two occasions, they closed the account immediately but asides from not issuing fraud reports on those two instances, they didn't suggest she change her telephone number either which surprises me cause that's how they got to her in the first place.

So - new bank, new unlisted number - Esther will be safe for a while ..... until she gets hit with some random computer dialing that is.

Corrine

 

[BlondiePB]

Blondie, that's the first thing I did when we got back from the bank last Thursday after being told that the SS payment just received couldn't/wouldn't be released because her account was now overdrawn.

And, that means this lady has no money for the month of April.

She's now got a new account with Venture and SS will be paying her money in there in future.

I've also changed her telephone number.

Good.

One daughter has been contacted - neither of the others have bothered call me back but she's in agreement for me to have some limited power of attorney - purely to try and prevent this from happening again (guess it saves her bothering too ).

This is the problem IAAL was pointing out to you regarding a POA. Just because you are a POA, that does not mean that the grantor (person you are POA for) cannot conduct his/her own affairs as he/she chooses. The grantor will either revoke the POA should he/she be denied his/her checkbook by the POA or/and order more checks for their bank account.

Yes, it is unfortunate that this lady's family will not "step up to the plate". They just don't and it's not worth it to expend energy trying to figure it out.

Is it your opinion that this lady is mentally competent?

Does this lady need assistance with 2 or more activities of daily living?

Is this lady just incompetent in handling her finances?

Did you read the WA codes that I posted earlier?

I'm asking these questions to help you help this lady.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Esther will be safe for a while ..... until she gets hit with some random computer dialing that is.

Corrine

My response:

Corrine, sign Esther up on the "National Do Not Call Registry", here:

https://www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx

IAAL


P.S. . . . and yourself too, if you haven't already done so.

 

[Veronica1228]

they, the "scam artists," have the lady's info that enables them to access any account that she has at Key bank.

For the record, the only thing I was disagreeing with was this statement. I agreed that Key Bank is not doing their duty, and Esther should change banks. Having a single account number to one account does not necessarily unlock all other accounts that person may have at that bank.

 

[Rainier]

And, that means this lady has no money for the month of April.

She has a little cash - enough to get her through this month but I've not volunteered that to the Bank. Her sole income is that SS which they're holding because it was paid into an account which was overdrawn and she was never told by Key to stop it going in there in the first place.

This is the problem IAAL was pointing out to you regarding a POA. Just because you are a POA, that does not mean that the grantor (person you are POA for) cannot conduct his/her own affairs as he/she chooses. The grantor will either revoke the POA should he/she be denied his/her checkbook by the POA or/and order more checks for their bank account.

Because of that, I've made it clear to both Esther (and the attorney) that I am only willing to help as long as she cooperates. If she doesn't then it's obvious that her family will have to be informed (through the attorney) and my involvement in that regard with have to cease.

And that's something else on the list for our meeting too. Esther is aware that she (and her family) have to make choices for her care down the road. She know that what we're doing right now will enable her to stay in her home but there will come a time when that won't be possible (and I suspect it'll be sooner rather than later).

I'm willing to take on the responsibility of checking in on her regularly (I've been doing that anyway). I'm willing to keep an eye on her checking account to make sure she's not been pressurized into anything and is not spending money unwisely etc. etc.. But down the road, if that proves unworkable then I must be able to hand Esther's care over to her family.

Is it your opinion that this lady is mentally competent?

To cope with her basic needs - without a doubt. She's clean, she cooks (the house is untidy but no ever got locked up for that one thankfully).

Does this lady need assistance with 2 or more activities of daily living?

No.

Is this lady just incompetent in handling her finances?

Yes.

Did you read the WA codes that I posted earlier?

Yes I did read RCW 11.88.010 and 11.88.030 Blondie, and have printed them out for our visit with the attorney this week.

However, I have to be brutally honest with myself and Esther.

I have been friendly with Esther for some years now - I'm happy to assist Esther to help her to continue living on her own but that's as far as I willing to commit myself. I'm not willing or able to take on the responsibility of her possible long term care.

I have to work and she understands that. It would be very cruel of me to allow Esther to believe that I'll always be able look after her.

sign Esther up on the "National Do Not Call Registry", here:

Already ahead of you Mr. Liable. I did that for her last week. That and registered her with the DMA Mail Preference Service and DMA Telephone Preference Service (you can do this online with the Direct Marketing Association at www.dmaconsumers.org) to try and get her removed from some of the mailing lists.

Things everyone should do.

Blondie - Esther had 3 checking accounts with Key Bank - one after the other. It was the Telemarketers calling her and persuading her to part with her account number that gave them access to her accounts (you're entitled to a Federal Grant etc. etc.).

On the lighter side. My 12 year old niece gave me a bit of advice today. Her and her father (my brother) were talking about Esther's situation with the car.

Apparently, he told her that in the good old days (when we were at college), I'd have been marching up and down outside the car dealership with a plackard in my hand trying to shame them. She told me to do it. I told her it might come to that!

Corrine

 

[BlondiePB]

Nice Work

Get the POA as soon as possible. When Esther get to the point where you cannot take care of her, just apply for her to have a guardian and provide the court with Esther's family's names, addresses, etc. Sure the attorney can call Esther's famaily; however, having the court notify her family will be more "eye opening."

When you sign things as Esther's legal representative, follow your name with POA for Esther.....(her last name). Otherwise, you will find yourself the guarantor for things.

Call Dept. of Elder Affairs. They will help with services/things that will benefit Esther.

Social Security does not recognize a POA.

Good luck and God Bless You.

BlondiePB

 

[Rainier]

Just a quick update on the car.

I spent a great deal of time talking with Subaru USA Inc. this afternoon (they have a 1-800 number so why not).

Very sympathetic like you would expect. Stated that they have little involvement with the day-to-day running of the dealerships as they were all privately owned blah blah, and that the have no control over such matters.

I explained that I'd been in contact with the dealership and that they merely suggested Esther sell the car or that she file bankruptsy. Subaru USA stated again that they were sympathetic but that they didn't really know how they could help.

So I simply said "fine". But I went on to tell them I wasn't going to just walk away from this and however unfortunate the bad publicity might be, an alternative avenue for support and advice might be the press, 20/20, and yes....... even Oprah (and anyone else who would listen). (I guess this is where I'm supposed to say that I'm ashamed of myself....sigh).

Interestingly, the tone changed and they suddenly agreed to call the dealership on Esther's behalf and will be calling me back tomorrow with maybe a possible solution. And one which they mentioned was that the vehicle be returned, and that some reimbursement made to Esther (as a gesture of goodwill of course) for the $8,000 she's already paid out (in just 8 weeks).

We'll see - hoping for the best but planning for the worst. But I now have a direct number a name and a case number.

Corrine

 

[BlondiePB]

Good one...I love it!

 

[Rainier]

Just a little bump.

In the absense of any response from either Subaru USA or the dealership I've been re-reading my notes and the information given here.

And something IAAL wrote earlier has renewed my spark:

I smell a real, real, real, good "Elder Abuse" case against the dealership and everyone else who has financial dealings with Esther . . .

I think it was the third "real" that caught my eye...

Corrine

 

[Rainier]

Update but yet another question I'm afraid.

I had a call back from Subaru USA yesterday. They had been talking to the dealer who were now willing discuss buying back the car from Esther. Exactly what they're going to come up with remains to be seen.

However, something else has cropped up which I'd be grateful for your advice on.

I managed to talk with the shyster neighbour who went to the dealership with Esther. I asked why he didn't at least make sure she could afford the payments on this car in the first place.

He told me that when they went down to the dealership (the contract is dated 2/6/05), he understood that their APR was 1.9%. Both he and Esther have told me seperately that the vehicle she bought had a 1.9% APR poster displayed on it.

He left the dealership before Esther apparently so I have no idea whether he checked it through before Esther signed - from what she says he didn't but I'll ask him that tomorrow..

Anyway, I've got Esther's copy of the paperwork and in the "Federal Truth-in-Lending Disclosures", it gives the APR as 3.9%.

I've never financed a car so I know nothing about this. I just find it ironic that until I raised it - they both thought the APR was 1.9%.

Is this yet another thing I need to point out to the attorney?

Corrine

 

[BlondiePB]

Update but yet another question I'm afraid.

I had a call back from Subaru USA yesterday. They had been talking to the dealer who were now willing discuss buying back the car from Esther. Exactly what they're going to come up with remains to be seen.

However, something else has cropped up which I'd be grateful for your advice on.

I managed to talk with the shyster neighbour who went to the dealership with Esther. I asked why he didn't at least make sure she could afford the payments on this car in the first place.

He told me that when they went down to the dealership (the contract is dated 2/6/05), he understood that their APR was 1.9%. Both he and Esther have told me seperately that the vehicle she bought had a 1.9% APR poster displayed on it.

He left the dealership before Esther apparently so I have no idea whether he checked it through before Esther signed - from what she says he didn't but I'll ask him that tomorrow..

Anyway, I've got Esther's copy of the paperwork and in the "Federal Truth-in-Lending Disclosures", it gives the APR as 3.9%.

I've never financed a car so I know nothing about this. I just find it ironic that until I raised it - they both thought the APR was 1.9%.

Is this yet another thing I need to point out to the attorney?

Corrine

It is the responsibility of the buyer to make certain that things are "in order" prior to signing the papers. Just use this as more fuel for your fire.