Are you legally required to the tip automatically added to your bill?

[amazontabletfire]

What is the name of your state? FL.

I normally leave good tips even if the service is average however recently I went to a restaurant in which the waiter had me waiting for almost 3 hours during a lunch break.

I was absolutely furious about the poor service and then the bill came with the tip already added.

My question is are you able to just pay the bill that is for services you use and leave out the tip that was added on automatically?

I know in Florida, a black guy called 911 because a Chinese restaurant added to tip to the bill because he said " Black people never tip"
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/10/us/restaurant-s-added-gratuity-leads-to-discrimination-claim.html
However that is beside the point. My question is if you are legally obligated to tip(even with horrible service) if the restaurant added the tip to your bill automatically?

Thanks.

 

[Taxing Matters]

My question is if you are legally obligated to tip(even with horrible service) if the restaurant added the tip to your bill automatically?

If the restaurant notifies you before your order (for example, by stating in the menu itself) that a gratuity of X% will be added to your bill and you go ahead and order anyway you have agreed to pay that as part of the price of your meal. Then if you refuse to it when the bill comes that is at least a potential breach of contract and the restaurant could sue you for it, if it was willing to go through the trouble and expense of doing that.

On the other hand, if you have no advance notice of it and the restaurant just pops it on to your bill at the end then you aren't obligated to pay it.

 

[amazontabletfire]

If the restaurant notifies you before your order (for example, by stating in the menu itself) that a gratuity of X% will be added to your bill and you go ahead and order anyway you have agreed to pay that as part of the price of your meal. Then if you refuse to it when the bill comes that is at least a potential breach of contract and the restaurant could sue you for it, if it was willing to go through the trouble and expense of doing that.

On the other hand, if you have no advance notice of it and the restaurant just pops it on to your bill at the end then you aren't obligated to pay it.

So this is a civil not criminal matter? The menu is considered a contract even without any signed papers?

Do they have to prove that you were aware of it or just have it posted somewhere?

Can I throw a party and have some small sign saying that all attractive females must pose nude for me and sue them if they don't?

Seem like kind of am ambush. Is this enforceable?

To make matters worst, many of the restaurant that add the tip automatically to your bill will give you a bill with a place to put a tip.
It will not say " Additional" tip since there is already a tip included but rather just " tip" as if a tip had not already been added.

I have no doubt that many unsuspecting tourist get hit twice for the tip.

Also, a tip on a bill is like 20. Are you going to spend thousands in legal fees to collect $20? You would spend this with 2 seconds of an attorney's time.

 

[stealth2]

Are you going to spend thousands in legal fees to collect $20?

They'd likely ask the court to order legal fees from the person being sued. Then it's up to the judge.

 

[LdiJ]

So this is a civil not criminal matter? The menu is considered a contract even without any signed papers?

Do they have to prove that you were aware of it or just have it posted somewhere?

Can I throw a party and have some small sign saying that all attractive females must pose nude for me and sue them if they don't?

Seem like kind of am ambush. Is this enforceable?

To make matters worst, many of the restaurant that add the tip automatically to your bill will give you a bill with a place to put a tip.
It will not say " Additional" tip since there is already a tip included but rather just " tip" as if a tip had not already been added.

I have no doubt that many unsuspecting tourist get hit twice for the tip.

Also, a tip on a bill is like 20. Are you going to spend thousands in legal fees to collect $20? You would spend this with 2 seconds of an attorney's time.

Where you perhaps with a large or larger party? It is common practice in the restaurant industry that tips are automatically added for parties larger than six people. If so, that information is usually posted in the menu itself.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if a really bad server, or a server that had to deal with a seriously backed up kitchen, might add a tip if they expected a customer to short them. Since 3 hours is a horribly long time to wait for a restaurant meal, that server SHOULD have expected to be shorted.

 

[stealth2]

Since 3 hours is a horribly long time to wait for a restaurant meal,

I'm surprised anyone would wait three hours - for lunch.

 

[xylene]

After 45 minutes I would have informed the manager and left.

 

[adjusterjack]

The menu is considered a contract even without any signed papers?

You don't have to sign a contract to have a contract.

Do they have to prove that you were aware of it or just have it posted somewhere?

As long as it's posted (big sign or on the menu) you have notice even if you didn't bother to read it. It's called "constructive notice." (google it.)

Is this enforceable?

Yes.

Can I throw a party and have some small sign saying that all attractive females must pose nude for me and sue them if they don't?

"Can" you? Of course. The word "can" denotes the ability to do something not whether it's right or wrong. Can you win a lawsuit against the woman who won't pose nude? Of course not.

I went to a restaurant in which the waiter had me waiting for almost 3 hours during a lunch break.

3 hours? Well, that's on you, bub. You should have walked out after 15 or 20 minutes and complained to the manager on the way out.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to Florida's automatic gratuity law: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/0509.214

 

[Taxing Matters]

So this is a civil not criminal matter? The menu is considered a contract even without any signed papers?

It is certainly a civil matter. It could also be a criminal matter if the state could prove you intended to stiff the restaurant from the start. That's going to be pretty difficult though if you paid for the food charges and simply refused to pay the tip portion because of the bad service. As a result, the police would likely tell the restaurant owner it is simply a civil problem, not a criminal one. But there is a chance in the right circumstances they'd consider it a crime.

Most contracts need not be written to be enforceable. Indeed, though people don't often think of it in these terms, every time you buy something at store check out counter or order food at a restaurant you are entering into a contract.

Do they have to prove that you were aware of it or just have it posted somewhere?

They have to show what the terms of the contract were. If the statement is printed on the menu along with the prices of the food you are buying the court is very likely to conclude that the tip provision was part of the contract on the assumption that you read it all and knew what the terms were for buying food at that the restaurant. The menu is, after all, the price list for the goods you are buying, and since everyone knows that you'd be expected to have read it and know what the conditions of sale are, just like you should read all the terms of sale when you check out of Amazon or some other online store.

Similarly in many states if they had a prominent sign at the entrance with their policy the court may well conclude you had constructive notice of it when you entered the restaurant. Florida's law requires it on the menu, however.

Also, a tip on a bill is like 20. Are you going to spend thousands in legal fees to collect $20? You would spend this with 2 seconds of an attorney's time.

As I said before, they could sue you for it if they wish to go through the trouble and expense of doing it. A lot of restaurants likely wouldn't bother. Note that if they did decide to do it, they aren't going to hire a lawyer for it. Florida apparently allows business entities to sue in small claims court without a lawyer. So the restaurant owner could just sue you in small claims court without incurring any legal fees. He or she would just have to take some of his/her time to do it.

 

[Taxing Matters]

They'd likely ask the court to order legal fees from the person being sued. Then it's up to the judge.

The restaurant is likely to sue in small claims without a lawyer, though lawyers are allowed in Florida small claims court. But lawyer's fees are not awarded in breach of contract claims unless the contract itself provides for it, so while the restaurant could ask for lawyer's fees it wouldn't get those fees awarded.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? FL.

I normally leave good tips even if the service is average however recently I went to a restaurant in which the waiter had me waiting for almost 3 hours during a lunch break.

I was absolutely furious about the poor service and then the bill came with the tip already added.

My question is are you able to just pay the bill that is for services you use and leave out the tip that was added on automatically?

I know in Florida, a black guy called 911 because a Chinese restaurant added to tip to the bill because he said " Black people never tip"
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/10/us/restaurant-s-added-gratuity-leads-to-discrimination-claim.html
However that is beside the point. My question is if you are legally obligated to tip(even with horrible service) if the restaurant added the tip to your bill automatically?

Thanks.

WERE you notified BOTH on the menu and on the bill that a tip was automatically added? If not notified on both, the restaurant violated the law.

 

[amazontabletfire]

They'd likely ask the court to order legal fees from the person being sued. Then it's up to the judge.

I thought the judge will only do legal fees if one side is obviously wrong Many people believe its illegal to even add a tip automatically to a bill and in fact one black guy even called 911 over it.

Most people think a tip is optional so I think it might be considered a gray area of the law but I don't know which is why I am asking on here.

 

[amazontabletfire]

Where you perhaps with a large or larger party? It is common practice in the restaurant industry that tips are automatically added for parties larger than six people. If so, that information is usually posted in the menu itself.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if a really bad server, or a server that had to deal with a seriously backed up kitchen, might add a tip if they expected a customer to short them. Since 3 hours is a horribly long time to wait for a restaurant meal, that server SHOULD have expected to be shorted.

Party was only 4 people. I have eaten out at restaurants all the time and this was the first time I actually considered walking out on the check and just leaving.
It was for Lunch too not even dinner. Imaging if you took off for work on your lunch break and returned over 3 hours later. Your boss would probably not be too happy with you. Many people only have a very limited window of opportunity for lunch.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I thought the judge will only do legal fees if one side is obviously wrong Many people believe its illegal to even add a tip automatically to a bill and in fact one black guy even called 911 over it.

It's not illegal or improper to add the automatic tip so long as the restaurant has given you proper notice of it, which in your state means that the restaurant tells you of the fee on the menu and on the bill you are given at the end of the meal. That one incident with the African-American customer was not about adding tips automatically in general. It was rather that it was only added for him because of his race. Only adding the automatic tip for Black customers but not for White customers is illegal discrimination based on race. Nothing you've said here suggests something like that is at work in your situation.