Battery in Tort

[ellencee]

And if no one took 11th, I'm in for $20.

Hey, I said he's a senior when school starts! If you meant he has completed his 11th year, then we're riding the same bet (except that you actually wagerd $20!)

EC

 

[You Are Guilty]

True, but I mean going into 11th, not going into 12th, so your bet is safe.

Real question of the day: do RF's posts constitute "intentional infliction of emotional distress" on Pepperdine?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

True, but I mean going into 11th, not going into 12th, so your bet is safe.

Real question of the day: do RF's posts constitute "intentional infliction of emotional distress" on Pepperdine?

I don't think they are too happy about now with"RF" or "consentlaw"

 

[tphillips78]

Read this post from the begining

If you read this from the begining it sounds more like Randall wants someone to do his homework. Then he puts a spin on it and says that it was his son that all this has happened to. Then he starts telling the doctors and nurses how to do there job. What procedure to use on his son. This from a guy that is a Law Student not a Med Student. This guy doesn't know what's going on with his son medically but he's telling the doctor what to do. Then he says that he didn't sign any consent. Then he called the next day and the Admin person just admits to wrong doing by a doctor and nurses. I don't F****** think so. They never admit to anything even if it says so in the records in front of them without talking to a lawyer.

 

[ellencee]

Then he call the next day and the Admin person just admits to wrong doing by a doctor and nurses.

Oh--hospital administrators, doctors, and nurses are great at double-talk. It was probably like this: "I'm sorry. We find there were numerous paperwork errors by the doctors and the nurses" which means, "I'm sorry. Someone forgot to post the keep-out signs next to a photo of you." or "I'm sorry. The doctors and the nurses really screwed up when they didn't have security arrest you, turn you over to the sheriff's office, and have your butt thrown in the jail and your child placed in the hospital's custody until DSS could take over. Damn those doctor's and nurses--now you're calling me; heads will roll."

EC

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Oh--hospital administrators, doctors, and nurses are great at double-talk. It was probably like this: "I'm sorry. We find there were numerous paperwork errors by the doctors and the nurses" which means, "I'm sorry. Someone forgot to post the keep-out signs next to a photo of you." or "I'm sorry. The doctors and the nurses really screwed up when they didn't have security arrest you, turn you over to the sheriff's office, and have your butt thrown in the jail and your child placed in the hospital's custody until DSS could take over. Damn those doctor's and nurses--now you're calling me; heads will roll."

EC

And he is even proud they called security, anyone in their right mind would have omitted that part, but that's what sets him apart from the rest I guess.

 

[tphillips78]

I don't get Randall

I don't get this Randall guy whats so ever. I'm not a dumb person but I also know that I don't know everything. That's why when my kids are sick I take them to the doctor or if it's after hours to the ER. But I still don't tell the nurses and the doctors how to do there jobs. I might ask questions to get a better picture about what they are thinking is wrong and what they are going to do about what's going on with my kid but I never tell them what to do. I think Randall thinks since he goes to Law School that he knows everything about Medicine to. Or maybe he's like that Mark Hacking guy and thinks he's going to Law School. ( I know Mark Hacking lied about getting into Med School)

 

[RandallFabiano]

Wow..You guys are so helpful with my homework

Look I feel it is only proper to say and explain somethings before you go getting presumptious....
When I went to the hospital, the last and I do mean the last thing I was thinking about was paperwork! Sorry, being a lawstudent and all of that comes second to being a daddy. During the course of the treatment if you could call it that all of this crap started happening. I dont ask you to believe me, but we never signed anything and when we were told they were going to use the transurethral catheter I told them I did not want them to use it, I said can't you just use a condom catheter and perform a urinalysis off that, she said no. I dissagreed with her (nurse) and then she became huffy puffy and spouted all this best interest crap. I told her "look I dont want this and since I am his father I will decide what the best interest of my son is". Look Guys I have done the research on Trans catheters, I realize they are very common, however, they are also not without risks. I felt that the condom catheter would have served the same result. Consequently the standard of care of a cath in an er is to send it to a lab, to which they never did anyway but I wont go there. Security was called when I tried to remove my son from the hospital when they said we couldn't go. I told them I would take him to a different hospital. After some threats of false imprisonment and a few phonecalls later we were allowed to leave.
Medical Demigods! Even after all of that I still didnt realize until the next day that no paperwork was signed or even mentioned. Forgod sake we never even got discharge papers! To this day I never got a medical bill and the medical charts and records have dissappeared.
But I guess I can see why you guys are reluctant to believe me. Think about it, it could have been your son or daughter!
Don't parents have the rights to choose, or should we just leave that up to Doctors and Nurses. I seriously dont think so and the color of the law doesn't either. If we go letting Doctors and Nurses doing what ever they want then really whats the point of medical consent.
For that matter whats really the point of anything at all.
I take it you guys are for Bush's Patriot Act.

 

[RandallFabiano]

Quotes

“This scratch is not just a scratch on parent's rights, it’s a huge gash that can lead to hemorrhage of the ability to be secure in our persons from governmental interference"- Sandra Day O'conner
Citing that ultimately parents have the rights to choose for their young children's medical care.

"Medical Doctors dont know everything.. they think they do... but they don't. That's why most doctors don't operate on their kids."- Anonymous

"I do believe that every person has the rights to do as they wish with their bodies, so long as it that means, they won't get fat and want to wear spandex"-Bob Hope

 

[tphillips78]

Randall a Dad that wants to be a Doctor/Lawyer

Are you a nurse or a doctor? No and in this post you even say that you asked them if they "can use a condom catheter to perform a urinalysis off that." You may be the kids father but your not a nurse or a doctor so I don't see how you have your son's best interest at hand. That's way we have doctors and nurses. I'm not saying that all nurses and doctors are right all the time but by your post you didn't even give them a chance because you wanted to play nurse/ doctor and decide what they were going to do to your son. Have you ever thought that the transurethral catheter was easier to do on an infant or small child compared to a comdom catheter?

Now that you have done research on transurethral catheter makes you more informed after the fact. Maybe they didn't send the catheter to the lab because of your threats of false imprisonment and the phone calls. About the discharge papers you must have not waited around to get those. It takes awhile to draw those up. I say on average 15 to 30 minutes if not longer depending on how busy the hospital is on that night. About you not giving consent is BullSh**. Like I said before as you register your kid that's consent for treatment. WHICH MEANS YOU SIGNED TO HAVE HIM TREATED FOR WHAT EVER REASON. IF YOU GOT THERE BY AMBULANCE THEY TAKE ALL THE INFO BEFORE YOU GET THERE AND TRANFER IT TO THE HOSPITAL. SO IF YOU SIGN SOMETHING FOR TREATMENT IN THE AMBULANCE THERE'S YOUR CONSENT. IT JUST TRANSFERS OVER TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS HERE IN KENTUCKY. IT SAVES TIME AND PAPERWORK. SO CHECK WITH THE AMBULANCE COMPANY IF THAT'S HOW YOU GOT TO THE HOSPITAL. i THINK YOUR WIFE WAS THERE WITH YOUR SON AND SIGNED THE CONSENT. EITHER AT THE HOSPITAL OR IN THE AMBULANCE. THEN YOU SHOWED UP AT THE HOSPITAL TO PLAY BIG BAD LAW SCHOOL/ WANT-TO-BE DOCTOR DADDY.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Randy,
I don't know where or when you did your research on the transurethal catherization, but I suspect it was after the fact and your research didn't include anything that didn't suppport your contentions. I think you are "sue happy" and just looking for something to gain attention to your sorry lot in life. You are so lucky they didn't call CPS on you, and you also admit they were using the terms, "Best interest of the child", that is where other things kick into place.

I did a short research this morning, just for grins, in different situations in addition to infants. Essentially there was no difference in infection rates because of the invasive nature, in some cases less and where a clean catch is needed, it is the preferred method. Just to show you it isn't hard to research it's use in infants and not knowing the reason you presented your child for treatment, I found this recent article from an ED department in Irvine, so not far from you and as close to your situation as I could find on short notice. It clearly states that it is the preferred method for infants or young children unable to control their bladders for a clean catch.

There are unique problems working with infants and small children, sometimes the biggest problem is their parents. I hope the next time you go on a "fishing trip" for a law suit, you don't use your child as bait! I also hope they have you on the list so when you pull another stunt like that CPS will come in before you have a chance to interfer in your child getting appropriate care. BTW at 3 months my child was very ill with infant botulism and had to have a spinal tap. I helped hold him down, there was no panicing or hystarics, there were a few wimpers and then he was admitted, still many more tests. Tests are not fun, sometimes they are necessary. Your actions are in no way justifiable. Please get back on your meds. Did you sue the hospital when your child was born for battery because they cut the umbilical cord? Personally I prefer my "torts" with fruit toppings rather than "batteries"!

"Tuesday, August 10, 2004
What is your preferred method of urine collection in pediatric patients?
by Kenneth T. Kwon, MD, FAAP, FAAEM
Director of Pediatric Emergency Medicine
Division of Emergency Medicine
UC Irvine Medical Center
The collection method of choice for urine specimens in the pediatric population varies depending on the clinical situation. The methods available include bladder (transurethral) catheterization, bag-collection, and suprapubic percutaneous bladder aspiration.

If a urinary tract infection (UTI) is suspected, the goal is to obtain the cleanest specimen possible. In cooperative older children and young adults, this is easily accomplished with a standard clean voided mid-stream specimen. In infants and small children, however, this method is not an option. Sterile bladder catherization is the best way to obtain urine in these patients if an infectious cause is being pursued. Although more invasive than bag-collection, catheterization is much more reliable in detecting UTIs, with sensitivity and specificity reaching 95% and 99% respectively (1). A good rule of thumb is to perform catheterizations on all non-toilet-trained patients when suspecting a UTI; older but uncoordinated or uncooperative toilet-trained patients should also be considered for catheterized specimens.

The bag-collection technique is unreliable when evaluating for UTIs and is not recommended. One study found a 56% contamination rate of bag urine specimens collected in an emergency department (2), and others estimate up to an 85% false-positive rate of urine culture specimens obtained from a bag (1). Some practitioners feel that a negative urinalysis from a bag-collection specimen can be helpful to rule out a UTI. However, keep in mind that in children under about two years of age, a large percentage (up to 50%) will have culture-proven urinary tract infections with a negative urinalysis. Thus, confirmatory urine cultures should be sent on all these cases, and bag specimens are inadequate for culture testing.

Suprapubic bladder aspiration is regarded as the gold standard when comparing urine collection methods. This technique is technically simple and used commonly with premature neonatal patients, but its use in other ages are minimal. Due to the perceived invasive nature of the procedure by both parents and clinicians, it is rarely used in the ED setting. Also, some debate exists whether obtaining an actual urine specimen is more reliable with this method compared with catheterization. One ED study showed the success rate of obtaining urine via suprapubic bladder aspiration was only 46%, compared with 100% via bladder catheterization (3). Because of variable failure rates and experiences with this technique, suprapubic aspiration in the ED should be considered in those rare cases in which attempts to physically pass a catheter transurethrally are unsuccessful.

If urine is being collected for purposes unrelated to infection, the sterility of the specimen is not as important. Thus a bagged urine may be an acceptable method of collection. Examples of these situations would include assessment of hydration status with urine specific gravity or toxicologic evaluation with urine metabolite screening.

References
1. Downs SM. Technical report: urinary tract infections in febrile infants and young children. Pediatrics 1999;103:e54.
2. Al-Orifi F, McGillivray D, Tange S, Kramer MS. Urine culture from bag specimens in young children: are the risks too high? J Pediatr 2000;137:221-6.
3. Pollack CV Jr, Pollack ES, Andrew ME. Suprapubic bladder aspiration versus urethral catheterization in ill infants: success, efficiency, and complication rates. Ann Emerg Med 1994;23:225-30.

 

[tphillips78]

rmet4nzkx: Randall is the leading dumb parent of the year

Randall doesn't need kids. It's pretty bad when someone has a child and won't let a doctor/ nurse do there job just because they think they're smarter then everyone else. Good old Randall seems to be more worried about sueing the hospital about not stuff then his own sons problems. If he would have just let the nurse do his/her job instead of making a big deal out of them not doing what he wanted them to do everything would be fine. It's all about the money with Randall. He's a Law Student try to sue to get some experince under his belt.

 

[ellencee]

tphillips78
I want to clarify something for you. Not all patients sign an admission/registration form or a separate consent to treat form before they are seen. If time does not permit the completion of the form(s) before the patient is seen in the ER, it is done later-sometimes WAY later. Not all persons sign a form in the ambulance, either. In this bozo's case, I suspect the infant had been to this hospital before and registration information (required for the 'log' that hospitals must keep) was retrieved from the previous documents.

Like rmet4nzkx I spent some time doing research and not once did I find information that contradicted what I have said. In every federal law, state law, case law, hospital policy and procedure, etc. the exception of 'in the best interest of the patient' is held to be a non-punishable, non-liability-causing, non-criminal offense, act by the medical professional.

I absolutely love the text provided by rmet4nzkx; nothing could have been more appropriate.

Randyboy has raised legal issues of anti-dumping and medical battery and I think negligence for not sending the catheter to the lab (ha ha ha; that was a good one) and God knows what else because I certainly couldn't follow his manic tirade.

I guess he hopes to apply anti-dumping because he and his infant were abruptly 'discharged' from the facility and refused further treatment. The hospital did achieve the catheterization and I suspect ruled out any urinary system impending failure and concluded the infant could be seen elsewhere without suffering any life-threatening consequences. With that reasonable assumption and in consideration of the actions already taken by the hospital, if the infant had needed additional treatment to prevent life-threatening consequences (or the possibility thereof), I suspect child protective services would have appeared swiftly and Randyboy would have disappeared just as swiftly and given the opportunity to represent himself in court. (Can't you just imagine the hell Randyboy caught when he got home and the infant's mother found out that the infant did not receive medical care because Randyboy pitched such a fit?!)

Medical battery is a no-go, either (in my opinion). rnmet4nzkx provided us with case law on that subject (expert testimony). The exception of the golden rule of 'in the best interest of the patient' will apply.

We don't know why this infant was brought to the ER. Usually a sleepless, screaming baby, with an elevated temp arrives at the ER because one or both of the parents can't take it any more and want(s) someone to find out what the hell is wrong with the baby, to make it better, and let everyone get some sleep and some peace and quiet! Infants are not usually brought to the ER for simple UTI symptoms because most parents are not astute enough to realize when an infant has signs and symptoms of a UTI or with insufficient urinary output (which indicates a more serious problem with a high fatality rate). Infants quickly pass the point of successful treatment for urinary system problems and for meningitis; time is of the essence and does not allow for fooling around with less than the preferred diagnositc technique.

Never in my 25+ years as a practicing professional RN have I ever sent or have I known of any requirement for sending a urinary catheter to the lab in circumstances such as these.

I have reached the conclusion that Randyboy is simply preparing his anticipated defense for assault and battery of a medical professional. I believe we can all reasonable assume he assaulted the nurse and more likely than not put his hands on her during his assault of her, which is battery. The nurse and, or security personnel may have told Randy to expect assault and battery charges.

I swear, if the public and overzealous attorneys don't get out of healthcare, none of us are going to have doctors or nurses or hospitals or clinics; we're going to have to go back to growing our own herbs, treating ourselves and burying our children because of a simple infected bug bite. Do you think everyone will be happy then?

EC

 

[rmet4nzkx]

tphillips78

Never in my 25+ years as a practicing professional RN have I ever sent or have I known of any requirement for sending a urinary catheter to the lab in circumstances such as these.

I have reached the conclusion that Randyboy is simply preparing his anticipated defense for assault and battery of a medical professional. I believe we can all reasonable assume he assaulted the nurse and more likely than not put his hands on her during his assault of her, which is battery. The nurse and, or security personnel may have told Randy to expect assault and battery charges.

EC

Randy was more subdued today, but still not in touch with reality. EC I think you may be onto it, he is preparing his defense and BTW the child was in a hospital for several days following this event at another hospital, possibly they arranged for the transfer while security was detaining him? The article is pretty definitive to his situation and Providentially was the first to pop up, amazing how often Providence can come into play. Needless to say, if he is defending himself he will have a fool for a client!

 

[dequeendistress]

Sorry that I dug this out, but has the raffle come to an end?

If not, was there stipulation as to which grade and what age consent law has attained?