Can a landlord get in trouble for a renters crime?

[quincy]

In the abstract, virtually anything, including "get[ting] in trouble [and] fac[ing] property forfeiture" are at least theoretically possible.



Well...you and everyone who has seen your post, which includes site moderators who have the ability to trace your IP address to the general area where you are. It's not terribly smart to admit to criminal activity on a public forum.

First, the FreeAdvice site administrators do not trace IP addresses (which, quite frankly, are not an accurate indication of anything) or report to authorities the posters who come here seeking advice, unless there is VERY good reason to do so (e.g., terroristic threats).

Thank you for your input Quincy.
Looking forward to more answers to my original question from others too, even the same answer as they will solidify my beliefs...

Your original question was if landlords can be held legally liable for criminal actions of their tenants of which they are unaware. The answer is, generally no.

Whether landlords should be aware of the criminal acts of their tenant(s) is another question the answer to which depends on many factors.

In your described situation, the landlord has relied on you to care for and report on the property, much as most absentee landlords rely on local property managers to do the same. If you do not report any problems, and no one else reports any problems, the landlord cannot remedy the problems.

If you like where you live and you like your landlord, I recommend you remove the marijuana plants and grow tomatoes and green beans instead.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Can a landlord get in trouble or face property forfeiture for crimes committed by a renter such as growing marijuana on a property that is rented out if the landlord has no knowledge of the crime being committed? (The landlord in this case has not visited the property once in the 15 years of rental activity and lives about 500 miles away, the renter and landlord are both living in California)

Potentially, yes. I'm not in California, but like California my state has legalized both medical and recreational use of marijuana. Also like California, my state restricts where and how much weed a person may grow. In the case of an absentee landlord who lived in the country of Bahrain the city filed a public nuisance abatement charge (which is a civil matter) when cops discovered the tenant was illegally growing pot and arrested the tenant. The landlord ended up having to fly back to the city to attend a hearing to try to contest the fine levied by the city, claiming lack of knowledge of the tenant's activity. The city sought a $2,800 fine, an order requiring the city to approve any sale of the property, and the right to enter the property at random over the next 3 years to inspect the property to ensure no more illegal drug activity was taking place there. I think they ultimately settled the matter since the court continued the case and the landlord would have to make yet another trip back to the state from Bahrain to attend that hearing and, and such trips aren't cheap. He may also have had legal fees to pay as well. Bottom line is that your landlord might indeed face trouble from your illegal marijuana grow; even if the landlord can ultimately prevail on whatever civil or criminal charges the state or local government pursues against him the time, effort, and money he'd expend fighting it can really add up. He certainly won't be happy about that. If you have a good relationship with your landlord and don't want to cause him trouble, give up your illegal grow. Not to mention you yourself would face charges too.

 

[quincy]

Potentially, yes. I'm not in California, but like California my state has legalized both medical and recreational use of marijuana. Also like California, my state restricts where and how much weed a person may grow. In the case of an absentee landlord who lived in the country of Bahrain the city filed a public nuisance abatement charge (which is a civil matter) when cops discovered the tenant was illegally growing pot and arrested the tenant. The landlord ended up having to fly back to the city to attend a hearing to try to contest the fine levied by the city, claiming lack of knowledge of the tenant's activity. The city sought a $2,800 fine, an order requiring the city to approve any sale of the property, and the right to enter the property at random over the next 3 years to inspect the property to ensure no more illegal drug activity was taking place there. I think they ultimately settled the matter since the court continued the case and the landlord would have to make yet another trip back to the state from Bahrain to attend that hearing and, and such trips aren't cheap. He may also have had legal fees to pay as well. Bottom line is that your landlord might indeed face trouble from your illegal marijuana grow; even if the landlord can ultimately prevail on whatever civil or criminal charges the state or local government pursues against him the time, effort, and money he'd expend fighting it can really add up. He certainly won't be happy about that. If you have a good relationship with your landlord and don't want to cause him trouble, give up your illegal grow. Not to mention you yourself would face charges too.

Interesting. What state and what city was involved? Do you have a link to the case?

 

[Taxing Matters]

Interesting. What state and what city was involved? Do you have a link to the case?

Denver, Colorado, but I have no link to the case. It was in district court and no appeal was made. The city filed a lis pendens in the matter, but that's the only public record free online I can find in the matter. I don't know the final outcome of it, only the report of the filing for the public nuisance abatement, which is referenced in the lis pendens filing.

 

[quincy]

Denver, Colorado, but I have no link to the case. It was in district court and no appeal was made. The city filed a lis pendens in the matter, but that's the only public record free online I can find in the matter. I don't know the final outcome of it, only the report of the filing for the public nuisance abatement, which is referenced in the lis pendens filing.

Ah. Thanks for looking.

I know that if a landlord has received complaints about his tenants committing crimes on his property, or is otherwise aware of criminal activity on his property, and the landlord does nothing to address it, he can be held liable for damages or harms that result from his inaction.

That does not appear to be what is described here.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Ah. Thanks for looking.

I know that if a landlord has received complaints about his tenants committing crimes on his property, or is otherwise aware of criminal activity on his property, and the landlord does nothing to address it, he can be held liable for damages or harms that result from his inaction.

One of the arguments sometimes raised by the government is that the landlord should have known what was going on if he or she reasonably kept informed of what was going on at the property — the idea being that not doing inspections to avoid knowing what is going on should not let the landlord escape. I see that sometimes used in situations where the activity has been going on for quite some time and would have been apparent to the landlord had the landlord ever bothered to check the property.

 

[quincy]

One of the arguments sometimes raised by the government is that the landlord should have known what was going on if he or she reasonably kept informed of what was going on at the property — the idea being that not doing inspections to avoid knowing what is going on should not let the landlord escape. I see that sometimes used in situations where the activity has been going on for quite some time and would have been apparent to the landlord had the landlord ever bothered to check the property.

The argument could be made by the absentee landlord that Fonz, despite being a tenant, is also acting as property manager. The landlord apparently has trusted Fonz to take care of and maintain the property.

What we don’t know - and probably should know - is if the landlord’s property is a single tenant home or if Fonz shares the property with other tenants (in separate rooms or separate units). I have been assuming the rental is a single house occupied only by Fonz. My assumption could be wrong.

It can also be important to know how repairs to the property, regular maintenance and lawn care are handled. Again, my assumption has been that Fonz has handled all of this - mostly because it could be hard to keep marijuana plants a secret otherwise.

At any rate, my recommendation remains. Fonz should find another type of crop to grow.

 

[Just Blue]

One of the arguments sometimes raised by the government is that the landlord should have known what was going on if he or she reasonably kept informed of what was going on at the property — the idea being that not doing inspections to avoid knowing what is going on should not let the landlord escape. I see that sometimes used in situations where the activity has been going on for quite some time and would have been apparent to the landlord had the landlord ever bothered to check the property.

IMO given what the OP stated (15 years and LL hasn't checked on the property), LEO would have a good case against the LL in this situation.

 

[Fonz]

The argument could be made by the absentee landlord that Fonz, despite being a tenant, is also acting as property manager. The landlord apparently has trusted Fonz to take care of and maintain the property.

What we don’t know - and probably should know - is if the landlord’s property is a single tenant home or if Fonz shares the property with other tenants (in separate rooms or separate units). I have been assuming the rental is a single house occupied only by Fonz. My assumption could be wrong.

It can also be important to know how repairs to the property, regular maintenance and lawn care are handled. Again, my assumption has been that Fonz has handled all of this - mostly because it could be hard to keep marijuana plants a secret otherwise.

At any rate, my recommendation remains. Fonz should find another type of crop to grow.

All assumptions are correct.
Single house, maintenance including lawn care all performed by me, the renter.

 

[Fonz]

IMO given what the OP stated (15 years and LL hasn't checked on the property), LEO would have a good case against the LL in this situation.

IMO, the fact that the renter and the landlord have been friends long before the rental period began would negate that.

 

[Taxing Matters]

IMO, the fact that the renter and the landlord have been friends long before the rental period began would negate that.

Assuming that California would apply the idea that a landlord needs to keep informed of what occurs on his/her property the fact that the landlord and tenants are friends would not excuse the landlord from that duty. Even when a tenant is your friend you still need to fulfill your legal obligations.

And again, he may end up paying a lot to defend the action even if he can ultimately prevail based on lack of knowledge. If I were the landlord, I'd be really ticked off that my supposed friend was committing crimes in the property and exposing me to those kinds of problems.

 

[Just Blue]

IMO, the fact that the renter and the landlord have been friends long before the rental period began would negate that.

Nope. Your LL has a legal obligation to maintain his property. Part of maintaining the property is checking on it now and again. You have a personal relationship with the LL...that doesn't negate his business obligations.

Seriously...get rid of the excess pot. Keep it legal. 6 plants should keep you nice and stoned on a regular basis.

 

[quincy]

All assumptions are correct.
Single house, maintenance including lawn care all performed by me, the renter.

Thank you for the clarification.

To repeat what I said in my first reply, I believe it would be difficult for your city/prosecutor to support any legal action against your landlord. The landlord would need to be notified of any complaint or violation. The landlord has trusted you to report any problem.

But, again, if you like where you live and you like your landlord, I recommend you don’t tempt fate. It shouldn’t be too much longer before the federal government legalizes marijuana. Ditch the plants until they are legal for you to grow.

 

[Fonz]

Assuming that California would apply the idea that a landlord needs to keep informed of what occurs on his/her property the fact that the landlord and tenants are friends would not excuse the landlord from that duty. Even when a tenant is your friend you still need to fulfill your legal obligations.

And again, he may end up paying a lot to defend the action even if he can ultimately prevail based on lack of knowledge. If I were the landlord, I'd be really ticked off that my supposed friend was committing crimes in the property and exposing me to those kinds of problems.

I get what you are saying. Please point me to the law or something very similar that describes the part about a landlord needing to do inspections on the interior of rental properties, frequency etc. TIA
And PLEASE, stick to the original question and try not to flood the thread with personal opinions.

 

[zddoodah]

IMO given what the OP stated (15 years and LL hasn't checked on the property), LEO would have a good case against the LL in this situation.

For violation of what section(s) of the Penal Code (or any other of California's codes)?

Are you under the assumption that any law or principle of common law requires a landlord of an SFR has any obligation to check on the property with any frequency? If so, I'd be curious about a citation.

Your LL has a legal obligation to maintain his property.

I doubt that. Assuming the OP and his/her landlord have a standard residential lease, the tenant has exclusive possession of the premises, and the landlord has no obligation to maintain the property unless the lease says so.