Can I deny a neighbor access to my powerline

[154NH773]

What makes you believe there would be any difference between running overhead or below ground?

Naturally there would be no difference if the utility installed the conduit, and therefore owned it. They could tap in at will.

What I am proposing is what I did; that the OP install and own the conduit. I paid a contractor to install the conduit at my expense, and therefore I own the conduit and it cannot be cut into without my permission, despite it being in a utility easement. The transformer pad is on my property, and I wrote the utility easement on my property so it only allows access by the utility to service my property. Although the wire in my conduit and the transformer are owned by the utility, I paid for them to install it, and they cannot cut into my conduit to access the cable. I did not provide manholes or taps for the neighbors to connect, and they did not require that I do so when granting the utility an easement, nor did they require the utility to provide them service from my installation.

There is another way to do an underground service called "primary metering", in which the utility puts a meter on the primary service at the last pole, and the homeowner purchases, and owns, the entire underground service including the transformer. Such an installation would remove any questions of ownership that might be seen in the previous method, but the homeowner would be responsable for any problems with the cable or transformer, since he would own them. I didn't go that way, and it's a good thing since a lightning strike fried the transformer, which would have cost me several thousand dollars.

 

[justalayman]

who is to say they even use conduit?

and anything up to the meter on an underground service and up to the point the riser connects to the utility company's drop remains in the control of the utility company.


what you are suggesting is the OP run the conduit all the way to the road. The problem is: he would have to install his service at the road to remove the power companies control over the installation.

There is another way to do an underground service called "primary metering", in which the utility puts a meter on the primary service at the last pole, and the homeowner purchases, and owns, the entire underground service including the transformer.

You have to realize: the utility does not have to install it how you want even if you offer to pay.

I paid a contractor to install the conduit at my expense, and therefore I own the conduit and it cannot be cut into without my permission, despite it being in a utility easement. The transformer pad is on my property, and I wrote the utility easement on my property so it only allows access by the utility to service my property. Although the wire in my conduit and the transformer are owned by the utility, I paid for them to install it, and they cannot cut into the conduit to access the cable. I did not provide manholes or taps for the neighbors to connect, and they did not require that I do so when granting the utility an easement, nor did they require the utility to provide them service.

I would love to see your situation first hand. I suspect things are not close to what the OP is dealing with.

btw: they can tap another secondary AT the transformer. They do not need manholes, or any other means of access to the feeders.

and you already have answered whether they can tap into your feeders or not:

Although the wire in my conduit and the transformer are owned by the utility, I paid for them to install it, and they cannot cut into the conduit to access the cable.

actually, they can since it is their wire. They don't need your permission to attach to their property. They can cut the conduit, do a couple turn ups, set a small hand hole, make the tap and move on with life., that is unless you have a very unusual situation.

 

[154NH773]

I would love to see your situation first hand. I suspect things are not close to what the OP is dealing with.

Actually, I would say the situations are identical, except I am the one at the end of the line. The last pre-existing utility pole was aproximately 1300 feet from my home, with an ingress and egress access easement running through four undeveloped properties before getting to my property.
I won't go into detail on the obtaining of easements to cross the other properties, as I don't want to highjack the thread, but my neighbors tried to block my utility access for a year. This caused me to run on a generator after building my new house. Naturally I have some resentment over that delay, and my only remedy was to make it costly for their future development.
If I had paid for an above-ground installation, I would have been in the same situation as the OP; anyone could get access in the future, and my only reinbursement for the first 5 years would have been at the utility company's formula. After 5 years I would not be reimbursed.

who is to say they even use conduit?

That was the only acceptable installation method the utility would accept. They required 4" plastic conduit, and a separate 2" for telephone and cable, which cannot run in the same conduit with the power.

anything up to the meter on an underground service and up to the point the riser connects to the utility company's drop remains in the control of the utility company.

Not the conduit if installed by homeowner. Yes, they are responsible for the maintenance of the cable and transformer, but the owner of the conduit is solely responsible for, and is in "control of" the conduit. Remember, we are talking about the high voltage primary to the transformer, not the house drop.

the utility does not have to install it how you want even if you offer to pay

The "primary metering" is a method listed in the tarriffs, and my State Public Utilities Commission would have forced the utility to provide that type of installation if other suitible means had not been agreed upon.

they can tap another secondary AT the transformer.

No they can't. If you read my previous post; I placed the transformer pad on my property and their easement to service the transformer specifically restricts access except service for MY property. To tap into the transformer for other properties would require trenching on my property, which is not allowed by my easement to the utility.

they can since it is their wire. They don't need your permission to attach to their property. They can cut the conduit, do a couple turn ups, set a small hand hole, make the tap and move on with life.,

Wrong. I own the conduit, and with no prior provision for taps they cannot cut into, or otherwise disturb the conduit, except as I allow.

If a neighbor, in the future, wants to get utilitys on their property, they will have to pay me ANY asking price to tap in, or install their own underground primary service, including transformer. The tarriffs do not allow aboveground service into an area already served by underground service (anything beyond the last above-ground pole).

The question is; does the OP want to go to all that trouble and expense (probably 10X the above-ground cost) to screw his neighbor. I felt it was money well spent.

 

[justalayman]

Actually, I would say the situations are identical, except I am the one at the end of the line. The last pre-existing utility pole was aproximately 1300 feet from my home, with an ingress and egress access easement running through four undeveloped properties before getting to my property.
I won't go into detail on the obtaining of easements to cross the other properties, as I don't want to highjack the thread, but my neighbors tried to block my utility access for a year. This caused me to run on a generator after building my new house. Naturally I have some resentment over that delay, and my only remedy was to make it costly for their future development.
If I had paid for an above-ground installation, I would have been in the same situation as the OP; anyone could get access in the future, and my only reinbursement for the first 5 years would have been at the utility company's formula. After 5 years I would not be reimbursed.

That was the only acceptable installation method the utility would accept. They required 4" plastic conduit, and a separate 2" for telephone and cable, which cannot run in the same conduit with the power.

Not the conduit if installed by homeowner. Yes, they are responsible for the maintenance of the cable and transformer, but the owner of the conduit is solely responsible for, and is in "control of" the conduit. Remember, we are talking about the high voltage primary to the transformer, not the house drop.

The "primary metering" is a method listed in the tarriffs, and my State Public Utilities Commission would have forced the utility to provide that type of installation if other suitible means had not been agreed upon.

No they can't. If you read my previous post; I placed the transformer pad on my property and their easement to service the transformer specifically restricts access except service for MY property. To tap into the transformer for other properties would require trenching on my property, which is not allowed by my easement to the utility.

Wrong. I own the conduit, and with no prior provision for taps they cannot cut into, or otherwise disturb the conduit, except as I allow.

If a neighbor, in the future, wants to get utilitys on their property, they will have to pay me ANY asking price to tap in, or install their own underground primary service, including transformer. The tarriffs do not allow aboveground service into an area already served by underground service (anything beyond the last above-ground pole).

The question is; does the OP want to go to all that trouble and expense (probably 10X the above-ground cost) to screw his neighbor. I felt it was money well spent.

154NH773

Do you want to guess what I do for a living?

 

[154NH773]

Do you want to guess what I do for a living?

Utility installer??

Hey, all I know is what I have encountered in New Hampshire, which I don't think is much different than any other place.

I worked as a Journeyman Electrician for 13 years, and the rest of my career as an Engineer. I've also argued successfully in front of the NH Supreme Court pro se, but that doesn't mean I can't be wrong.
My nice new neighbors didn't like that I was going to build in their "pristine" woods, and really put me through hell. I think they are sorry now... after three successful lawsuits against them... So right or not, I think I have standing to give my advice. I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong, but that will have to be proven. (You didn't say if I was wrong. Was that your point?)
By the way, I generally enjoy your advice. I think your back and forth questioning is helpful for the OP and others, including myself, to narrow the focus. In an open forum, such as this, all discussion can be helpful.

Should the OP in this thread try and screw his neighbor? That's his business; I'm just trying to answer his question the best I can.