Can I quash a Civil Subpoena(Duces Tecum)?

[Bali Hai]

Well... The truth is the didn't co-mingle any more then any landlord is co-mingling with any tenant when they deposit rent checks, then supply bank statements + tax returns to a mortgage company to get a mortgage on an investment property.

Im still floored that he was able to use "border income" on an application to purchase a rental property, although if it met underwriting's due diligence I am sure it will meet the courts, because that's the kind of thing UW's almost NEVER approve...

Poster, is this is principal thing, or are you just not wanting your Gf to know what you make? Or are you ordered to pay another party (not party to this case) who you are afraid may be able to pull a now public tax return through court records and glean info about your income that may increase your obligation to them???

In any event if you want to Quash you are going to need an attorney, you can request your atty fees to be paid for by the other party if you wish.

Is it this poster playing the system or the woman in the scenario who receives alimony??? I suppose he is complicit in her playing the system, but in the end it's her case not his. (at least that's what we tell bf's and gf's all the time around here, that it isn't their case and the person who's case it is is responsible for their own actions)

Which leads right back to where we started. The OP's financial records are needed to prove (or disprove) that the g/f is fraudulently receiving alimony. You are saying to the ex-husband being scammed. TOUGH!

Don't worry we're used that.

 

[tuffbrk]

What other info would be helpful to you all?

Her rent is almost 1,000 which is typical for a 3br/2ba house in my area. It's more than what she gets in alimony. And as mentioned it's not something for me to hide in my taxes. In fact it has helped me a great deal in my investment purchase of my other home because that amount raises my ratios up to guidelines and without it, I would not qualify for a mortgage. I just don't want the taxes to become public information and that's what I will be discussing with the attorney this afternoon.

Are you stating that your GF lives in this 3br/2ba home alone? Or does she rent a room with kitchen priviledges in that home? If you were able to use that income in order to purchase another property...I would presume then that you have a written lease and that the home being rented was purchased as non owner occupied?

 

[Zigner]

Which leads right back to where we started. The OP's financial records are needed to prove (or disprove) that the g/f is fraudulently receiving alimony. You are saying to the ex-husband being scammed. TOUGH!

Don't worry we're used that.

Bali - you often-times paint with a very broad brush. But your brush is right on the money on this one!

 

[mzfromca]

Which leads right back to where we started. The OP's financial records are needed to prove (or disprove) that the g/f is fraudulently receiving alimony. You are saying to the ex-husband being scammed. TOUGH!

Don't worry we're used that.

But I will seek to quash it and do what I can to not provide tax info. I will go under oath and tell them I am claiming this money as income. Serious criminal charges if I lie but like I have been saying I have nothing to lie about. I am not going to allow them to view my financials just so they can snoop around and try to find another way to give my gf a hard time. The only way I would provide my taxes is if it's only available for the judge to see. I am also willing to bring my accountant to speak under oath as well. If any of this is possible of course. But I am not going to let them see my financial records. Not that easily.

 

[Silverplum]

But I will seek to quash it and do what I can to not provide tax info. I will go under oath and tell them I am claiming this money as income. Serious criminal charges if I lie but like I have been saying I have nothing to lie about. I am not going to allow them to view my financials just so they can snoop around and try to find another way to give my gf a hard time. The only way I would provide my taxes is if it's only available for the judge to see. I am also willing to bring my accountant to speak under oath as well. If any of this is possible of course. But I am not going to let them see my financial records. Not that easily.

You probably ought to dump her.

Your financials likely will be subpoenaed every other year for the duration of your relationship.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Just for the record, I think some discovery, including the testimony of the OP is appropriate and will not be quashed. It was only the tax returns I was speaking upon.

The original post seems to indicate that the tax information is the only thing being sought.

 

[ecmst12]

Just for my personal curiosity, if her alimony were to be stopped, would you continue charging her the same amount of rent?

 

[tranquility]

The original post seems to indicate that the tax information is the only thing being sought.

And, testimony.

What would be interesting to me is if the one who made the subpoena is an attorney of if the party is pro per.

 

[nanu156]

Except, in an "arms-length" transaction such as you are speaking of, the LL isn't playing house with the tenant. (ie: Cohabitating)

Technically what he used to qualify is called "boarder income", he was allowed to use what he showed as profit on his taxes/12 months then -25% for a vacancy factor. Incidentally I am surprised that it was enough to make any difference what so ever in his qualification for the investment property.

Border income is by definition "arms length", and arms-length income is completely allowable on mortgage applications as long as the tax returns support it and the 4506T matches what the borrower provided the mortgage house exactly. Typically the bank is going to want an additional 12 months of supports, the canceled checks + bank statements in addition to this. The borrower is only able to use what he had for last year, or an average of last year and the year before. He must have a lease for at least 12 months after closing. Oh and they order an rent-schedule appraisal where they compare rents of similar situations w/in a 3 mile radius.

Incidentally this poster would likely do well to contact his lender and get copies of the rent schedule he paid for it would go to support his rental rate.

Still nearly unheard of that that income passed underwriting and honestly super surprised that it was a positive value after deductions and the vacancy factor.

In any event if what the poster is stating is true that the border income met the scrutiny of the loan company he's really good, and it should also meet the scrutiny of the courts.

We tell posters "right or wrong, what matters is what you can PROVE" all the time, and it is typically an acceptable answer... I would guess that if this was the payer of the alimony posting you would be telling him the same thing.... That he has to prove it and should get used to paying her Alimony.

Dude get an atty and file the motion or get your returns to the court... Quit talking about it and do it. I mean, whatever... He can't use anything on your taxes to hurt your gal, so... Just give it up and let it be over. Unless your concern is that the returns being made public puts you at some sort of risk, there is no reason not to supply them.

 

[Zigner]

Border income is by definition "non-arms length"

By what definition is that?

 

[nanu156]

By what definition is that?

Border income implies that the person resided in your home with YOU (as in you board them for a fee). That means you KNOW them. That means its ARMS LENGTH.

Non-Arms length implies that the parties have no relationship. As in you posted on craigs-list and found a renter whom you don't know aside from the background check, credit check, and the monthly visit to pick up rent kind of stuff.

I actually mis-typed. I had a screaming (well not screaming, but sassy) 5yr old in the background having a tantrum about ice cream and mistyped.

Yes it is arms-length. Yes Arms-length income is allowable for a mortgage, it just typically requires a lot more documentation. (I gave you what would be required to get a loan closed at any of the big banks, or any of the banks that close with the intention to bundle off to big banks)

In any-event sorry it was a typo, probably more of a brain fart than a typo... in any event the offending post has been corrected.

 

[Zigner]

Border income implies that the person resided in your home with YOU (as in you board them for a fee). That means you KNOW them. That means its ARMS LENGTH.

Non-Arms length implies that the parties have no relationship. As in you posted on craigs-list and found a renter whom you don't know aside from the background check, credit check, and the monthly visit to pick up rent kind of stuff.

I actually mis-typed. I had a screaming (well not screaming, but sassy) 5yr old in the background having a tantrum about ice cream and mistyped.

Yes it is arms-length. Yes Arms-length income is allowable for a mortgage, it just typically requires a lot more documentation. (I gave you what would be required to get a loan closed at any of the big banks, or any of the banks that close with the intention to bundle off to big banks)

In any-event sorry it was a typo.

I would suggest that you check the definitions of arms-length and of boarder.
It is entirely possible to have a boarder that you've only met for the purposes of the business arrangement. It is also possible to have a boarder that you know very well.

This OP and his GF have attempted to create a "arms-length" relationship when, in fact, it is smoke and mirrors designed to circumvent the conditions of her receiving alimony. Their relationship is one of cohabitation...they are simply very careful to make it seem otherwise.

Let's ask the OP this: Does he sleep with her?

 

[tranquility]

I believe the screaming toddler helped your typing, not hurt it.

Arms-length generally means a fair negotiation without relationship or compulsion.

 

[nanu156]

I would suggest that you check the definitions of arms-length and of boarder.
It is entirely possible to have a boarder that you've only met for the purposes of the business arrangement. It is also possible to have a boarder that you know very well.

This OP and his GF have attempted to create a "arms-length" relationship when, in fact, it is smoke and mirrors designed to circumvent the conditions of her receiving alimony. Their relationship is one of cohabitation...they are simply very careful to make it seem otherwise.

Let's ask the OP this: Does he sleep with her?

I do mortgages for a living.... Work for a very large company that after sale bundles and sells to the big banks... I have been doing this since 1996. I am licensed in OP's state of residence. Have worked for several large companies in the last 16 years. Owned a brokerage in the early 2000's (didn't everyone though? lol)...

I am familiar with the guidelines for border income. I suppose one could have a border that they didn't know very well, HOWEVER from an underwriting perspective they are considered Arms-Length.

In any event Arms-length transactions, and supporting documents from arms-length sources are allowed as long as they are backed up by things like tax returns (that would then be backed up by 4506T's) Or bank statements that the lender can ask the bank for directly. Things like Leases don't typically work on their own in these scenarios. I mean they work to further support a claim but won't stand on their own as they can in Non-Arms-Length transactions.

In any event he can't claim where he and GF live as an investment property AND a Primary residence. Yet he claimed rental income out of that residence, how would you define that? Border income is how a mortgage company would.

It was a legit typo...

 

[nanu156]

I believe the screaming toddler helped your typing, not hurt it.

Arms-length generally means a fair negotiation without relationship or compulsion.

I edited it before your post, it said "non-arms-length" where it should have said "arms-length" Which was incorrect.

She isn't a toddler and wasn't really screaming but her dinner is still sitting on her plate, so I'm not preparing a bowl of ice cream...