Can I sue(and win) against a credit reporting agency for failing to comply with a subpoena ?

[leskoB]

What is the name of your state? UT

I am a landlord with a judgment who is in the process of collecting. I subpoena the debtor's records/credit report with one of the big 3 credit reporting agencies.
The agency flat out refused to provide any records until compelled by the court in with a court order which will take a considerable amount of time and money.

I am wondering why should I have to get a court order instead of just having them comply with a subpoena for those few pages?

When I google search the issue, it seems clear that I am on the ride side of the law with this. The big credit reporting agency should know better considering how many subpoena they must get every day. They are not some helpless babe in the woods.

It seems like they are trying to evade a subpoena with a policy, however policy is not law.

What do you guys think? Can I go after them for contempt of court by them willfully failing to comply with a subpoena?

Thanks.

 

[Taxing Matters]

What do you guys think? Can I go after them for contempt of court by them willfully failing to comply with a subpoena?

If the subpoena was issued by the court then filing for contempt with that court would be the logical next course of action.

If the subpoena was not issued by the court then generally you can't move for contempt of court because there is no court order. A subpoena issued by an attorney or other person allowed to issue them still has to be honored unless there is a valid reason to not comply. In that circumstance in at least some states your first step would likely be to seek a show cause hearing. You'd want to find out what the proper course of action would be in that situtation under the applicable state law.

 

[leskoB]

They will apparent comply with a court order but seem to reject all subpoenas.

So a "show cause hearing" is when they will have to explain their refusal to the judge. If the judge is not satisfied with the explanation, then they might get sanctioned or be forced to pay the legal fees associated with getting compliance with the subpoena?

I think this company did not even read the subpoena but rather just automatically sends out some boiler plate rejection letter.

What also makes this egregious is that the same court issued a court order for this identical information a few years ago but I needed an updated copy with the new information since then. So they are playing the same little games as they did before.

The go to response is like "we won't comply with any subpoena, go get a court order." If you have a busy or slow judge, that court order may take several months. There have been some cases where judges have sat on these motions for over a year without a ruling.

The question is how they can continue to just ignore everyone subpoena without consequence. This seems like bad behavior from a company that should know better giving the amount of subpoenas they probably get.

 

[quincy]

They will apparent comply with a court order but seem to reject all subpoenas.

So a "show cause hearing" is when they will have to explain their refusal to the judge. If the judge is not satisfied with the explanation, then they might get sanctioned or be forced to pay the legal fees associated with getting compliance with the subpoena?

I think this company did not even read the subpoena but rather just automatically sends out some boiler plate rejection letter.

What also makes this egregious is that the same court issued a court order for this identical information a few years ago but I needed an updated copy with the new information since then. So they are playing the same little games as they did before.

The go to response is like "we won't comply with any subpoena, go get a court order." If you have a busy or slow judge, that court order may take several months. There have been some cases where judges have sat on these motions for over a year without a ruling.

The question is how they can continue to just ignore everyone subpoena without consequence. This seems like bad behavior from a company that should know better giving the amount of subpoenas they probably get.

What sort of subpoenas were served on the credit reporting agencies? Subpoenas are generally court orders.

 

[adjusterjack]

The question is how they can continue to just ignore everyone subpoena without consequence.

The how is explained by the did. Asking the how question is a waste of time.

If you want the information bad enough you get a court order no matter what it takes. Otherwise the agency can ignore you with impunity.

What information/records are you demanding from the credit reporting agency? That's a question that needs answering because if will tell us whether you even have grounds for seeking that information/records from the credit reporting agency.

 

[Litigator22]

They will apparent comply with a court order but seem to reject all subpoenas.

So a "show cause hearing" is when they will have to explain their refusal to the judge. If the judge is not satisfied with the explanation, then they might get sanctioned or be forced to pay the legal fees associated with getting compliance with the subpoena?

I think this company did not even read the subpoena but rather just automatically sends out some boiler plate rejection letter.

What also makes this egregious is that the same court issued a court order for this identical information a few years ago but I needed an updated copy with the new information since then. So they are playing the same little games as they did before.

The go to response is like "we won't comply with any subpoena, go get a court order." If you have a busy or slow judge, that court order may take several months. There have been some cases where judges have sat on these motions for over a year without a ruling.

The question is how they can continue to just ignore everyone subpoena without consequence. This seems like bad behavior from a company that should know better giving the amount of subpoenas they probably get.

The authorities seem to agree that as a judgment creditor you have "a permissible purpose" in obtaining the information as requested in you subpoena duces tecum. Even from a non-party as in this instance, a credit-reporting agency. *

Less evident are the authorities describing the procedures required to compel compliance by a reluctant, non-complying, non-party.

Before embarking on the immense ask of securing an order compelling compliance with your subpoena, I suggest that you study the following comprehensive article:

"Threshold-issues-in-judgment-enforcement-proceedings-when-prosecuting-a-non-party-witness-for-contempt newyorklawjournal/2021/01/08"

Don't be dismissive of the article's importance simply because it appears in a New York Law Journal. Nation wide there is greater similarities in state laws governing post-judgment enforcement procedures than three are material differences.

[* E.g., Hasbun v. County of Los Angeles, 323 F.3d 801 (9th Cir. 2003); DunHcan v. Handmaker, 149 F.3d 424, 428 (6th Cir. 1998); Edge v. Professional Claims Bureau, Inc., 64 F.Supp.2d 115, 118 (E.D.N.Y. 1999); Korotki v. Attorney Serv. Corp., Inc., 931 F.Supp. 1269, 1277 (D.Md. 1996).

 

[Taxing Matters]

They will apparent comply with a court order but seem to reject all subpoenas.

So a "show cause hearing" is when they will have to explain their refusal to the judge. If the judge is not satisfied with the explanation, then they might get sanctioned or be forced to pay the legal fees associated with getting compliance with the subpoena?

That could be the result, though more commonly if the judge believed that the party has no good reason for refusing to provide the evidence the judge will enter an order requiring the production of the information sought. Failure to comply with that court order is then what would lead to contempt sanctions.

The question is how they can continue to just ignore everyone subpoena without consequence. This seems like bad behavior from a company that should know better giving the amount of subpoenas they probably get.

The big three credit bureaus do not "ignore" every subpoena they get. If the subpoena is a court order and there is no valid reason for refusing to comply they will turnover the information sought. But if the subpoena is not a court court order or has some perceived defects in it they tend to refuse to supply the requested information.

That's not just the credit bureau trying to make the the process more difficult. There is a logic to it. The problem for the credit bureaus here is one that may not be obvious to most. Credit bureaus and other consumer information firms are restricted by various state and federal laws regarding when and to whom they may release the information they have have on consumers. If they release information when they shouldn't, they can face significant fines or other penalties. In addition to that, consumer confidence in those companies will drop should information of improper disclosures hit the news. So in my experience they tend to be conservative when it comes to releasing a consumer's information so that they do not run afoul of those consumer protection laws. If the request they get is not itself a clearly enforceable court order, they typically won't give up the information until they get that clear court order just to be sure they don't violate those consumer protection laws.

 

[leskoB]

What sort of subpoenas were served on the credit reporting agencies? Subpoenas are generally court orders.

Subpoenas can be issued by an attorney or a clerk if pro se whereas a court order is an order from a judge at least that is my understanding.
If you have a really slow judge, that court order can take over 6 months whereas a subpoena can be issued quickly.

 

[leskoB]

The how is explained by the did. Asking the how question is a waste of time.

If you want the information bad enough you get a court order no matter what it takes. Otherwise the agency can ignore you with impunity.

What information/records are you demanding from the credit reporting agency? That's a question that needs answering because if will tell us whether you even have grounds for seeking that information/records from the credit reporting agency.

The how is explained by the did asking the how question? huh? Are you the Riddler? Sorry I don't follow.

Can they be made to pay or sanctioned for ignoring the Subpoena? Motion to show cause? This is the information I am after.

 

[leskoB]

That could be the result, though more commonly if the judge believed that the party has no good reason for refusing to provide the evidence the judge will enter an order requiring the production of the information sought. Failure to comply with that court order is then what would lead to contempt sanctions.



The big three credit bureaus do not "ignore" every subpoena they get. If the subpoena is a court order and there is no valid reason for refusing to comply they will turnover the information sought. But if the subpoena is not a court court order or has some perceived defects in it they tend to refuse to supply the requested information.

That's not just the credit bureau trying to make the the process more difficult. There is a logic to it. The problem for the credit bureaus here is one that may not be obvious to most. Credit bureaus and other consumer information firms are restricted by various state and federal laws regarding when and to whom they may release the information they have have on consumers. If they release information when they shouldn't, they can face significant fines or other penalties. In addition to that, consumer confidence in those companies will drop should information of improper disclosures hit the news. So in my experience they tend to be conservative when it comes to releasing a consumer's information so that they do not run afoul of those consumer protection laws. If the request they get is not itself a clearly enforceable court order, they typically won't give up the information until they get that clear court order just to be sure they don't violate those consumer protection laws.

What exactly is the thing that need to be protected so much that they can systematically ignore a subpoena and demand only court orders?
Whereas other financial institution such as a bank, investment firm, hedge fund are expected to comply with a subpoena? Is it the credit score number they calculate which is what they are closely guarding? If so, I don't even care about that number. They can delete that part from the provided documents.

As far as the privacy argument, would you think that pairing your phone bluetooth to your car infotainment system so you can make hands free call over bluetooth in your car would enable a 3rd party company secretly copying and downloading all your text messages and phone logs to their private server? Don't you think this would be a violation of your privacy? Judge has recently ruled that very thing is not a privacy law violation.

Subpoena to financial institutions must be complied with yet credit reporting agencies seem to thing the laws don't apply to them.
I have seen many articles written by attorney or law firms which clearly say that a judgement creditor can get the credit report from a judgment debtor. Also, if I am not even asking for the credit score, is it even considered a "credit report" or is it more like just tell us a list of banks that the judgment debtor has accounts with? The same as any other subpoena looking for assets.

These reporting agencies should know better since this is their business. Landlord judgment creditor collecting is a valid purpose. This is not the first time they have received a subpoena like this.

Its like being in a business where you steal everyone's money and never provide the good or service unless compelled to by a court. It sounds just extremely dishonest if not illegal to operate like this. It's about time someone push back against this practice and hold them accountable.

 

[leskoB]

The authorities seem to agree that as a judgment creditor you have "a permissible purpose" in obtaining the information as requested in you subpoena duces tecum. Even from a non-party as in this instance, a credit-reporting agency. *

Less evident are the authorities describing the procedures required to compel compliance by a reluctant, non-complying, non-party.

Before embarking on the immense ask of securing an order compelling compliance with your subpoena, I suggest that you study the following comprehensive article:

"Threshold-issues-in-judgment-enforcement-proceedings-when-prosecuting-a-non-party-witness-for-contempt newyorklawjournal/2021/01/08"

Don't be dismissive of the article's importance simply because it appears in a New York Law Journal. Nation wide there is greater similarities in state laws governing post-judgment enforcement procedures than three are material differences.

[* E.g., Hasbun v. County of Los Angeles, 323 F.3d 801 (9th Cir. 2003); DunHcan v. Handmaker, 149 F.3d 424, 428 (6th Cir. 1998); Edge v. Professional Claims Bureau, Inc., 64 F.Supp.2d 115, 118 (E.D.N.Y. 1999); Korotki v. Attorney Serv. Corp., Inc., 931 F.Supp. 1269, 1277 (D.Md. 1996).

There are articles from law firms and attorneys which say this as well. I think everyone seems to know this except the credit reporting agencies. Actually they probably do know this as well but intentionally play stupid to cause people to either go away or to spend a lot more time and money fighting to get this. Also, this is not just a 1 report and you are done. I would like to get these reports on a regular basis until the debt is paid whereas this guy is playing hot potato with all this money bouncing it around bank account for no reason then to evade the judgment. Creating new accounts all the time. It would be great not to have to fight a battle with the credit reporting agencies every time I need to check on the new activity.

 

[adjusterjack]

It would be great not to have to fight a battle with the credit reporting agencies every time I need to check on the new activity.

Kvetch all you want but you are not going to get what you want unless you follow the required legal processes. Even then you might not get what you want because there are people who are adept at avoiding creditors.

If you want ongoing reports of your debtor's activities consider becoming a paying member of the credit bureaus. That will give you the right to pull credit reports periodically just like a bank. You might qualify for membership but check the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting Act) before you commit to the expense.

How to Become a Member of the Credit Bureau - Career Trend

 

[quincy]

Subpoenas can be issued by an attorney or a clerk if pro se whereas a court order is an order from a judge at least that is my understanding.
If you have a really slow judge, that court order can take over 6 months whereas a subpoena can be issued quickly.

Did you follow the proper procedure for obtaining and serving the subpoena? If the agencies do not comply with a properly executed subpoena, you could file a motion to compel.

https://www.utcourts.gov/en/legal-help/legal-help/procedures/subpoena.html

 

[LdiJ]

There are articles from law firms and attorneys which say this as well. I think everyone seems to know this except the credit reporting agencies. Actually they probably do know this as well but intentionally play stupid to cause people to either go away or to spend a lot more time and money fighting to get this. Also, this is not just a 1 report and you are done. I would like to get these reports on a regular basis until the debt is paid whereas this guy is playing hot potato with all this money bouncing it around bank account for no reason then to evade the judgment. Creating new accounts all the time. It would be great not to have to fight a battle with the credit reporting agencies every time I need to check on the new activity.

You feel this way because you feel that the information coming from the credit reporting company is useful in your collection efforts. Can you imagine the chaos if every creditor out there had easy access to people's credit report details instead of having to ask the permission of the person applying for credit or the permission of the courts? Can you imagine the number of people who would have access to more than enough information to steal people's identities right and left? It is bad enough out there as it is, people's identities are getting stolen with great frequency. As a consumer, I am heartily glad that it isn't easy for you to get that information. I am heartily glad that you have to jump through hoops to do so.

Sorry, but your need for info to help you chase your debtor does not outweigh everybody else's need to protect their identity.

 

[leskoB]

Kvetch all you want but you are not going to get what you want unless you follow the required legal processes. Even then you might not get what you want because there are people who are adept at avoiding creditors.

If you want ongoing reports of your debtor's activities consider becoming a paying member of the credit bureaus. That will give you the right to pull credit reports periodically just like a bank. You might qualify for membership but check the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting Act) before you commit to the expense.

How to Become a Member of the Credit Bureau - Career Trend

You don't get it dude. They are the ones who are not following the required legal process. They were issued a valid subpoena from a landlord with a judgment and they refused to provide the information.

I asked what allows them to refuse a subpoena and no one can come up with anything. In fact, articles written by actual lawyers from actual law firms backup what I am saying. So you got that backwards on who is not following the legal process.

Secondly, I actually use to have 24/7 access to the credit reporting agency database. I could literally lookup whoever I wanted anytime I wanted. It was all in the name of the patriot act know your customer to prevent terrorism. They had like $4 box cutters but somehow it was the fault of people in the financial industry for 911. We did not even want it at the time, the government was forcing us to do it under the patriot act. We had to verify using their data that everyone was who they claim to be.

Anyway back to the subject at hand, a valid subpoena was ignored without a legal reason. So who is not following the legal process?