Central Air Warranty

[dvrslim]

R-22

I suspect there is no Freon involved here at all though. Given the legal mandates surrounding the phasing out of R22 (which Freon (trade name owned by DuPont) is rather than it's most common replacement of r410a (DuPont manufacturers it under the name of Puron)), I suspect r410a is the refrigerant in play here. I cannot find any pricing that would justify well over $40 per pound (and depending on the size of the system involved, it could calculate to over double that) . It has limited manufacturing locations so I would not see a reason it is so much more in Texas than anywhere else in the US. If it is, anybody game for going in on buying a tanker full up north and delivering it to Texas?

It is R-22

 

[dvrslim]

you have multiple possibilities in resolving this depending information not disclosed.



First, I would love to see how a claimed bad solder joint withstood 11 months of vibration but when the tech was working on the equipment, it suddenly failed/


second, I hope it is being repaired before refrigerant is installed. While that seems like a no brainer, given what you are going through now and you made no mention of it, I just wanted to be sure the repair is made first.

so then what you have to do is read the manufacturers warranty on the unit and any warranty the installer may have provided independently as well. There may very well be a limit on the inclusion of the refrigerant. That is something you need to research before getting all set to fight this either way.

on top of all of that, a bad solder joint on a line is the blamed culprit. Were the lines also supplied by the manufacturer of the unit? If not, the only possible source for warranty coverage would be the supplier of the line and it is very likely they have included a limit on what they cover.

I don't see your home warranty being any sort of issue unless the liable manufacturer's warranty includes such a limit. I wouldn't expect to see such a limitation.


so a bit more:

what was soldered on the line that failed? AC lines are quite simple with the line being a single piece of tubing and either a fitting on the end made to engage a fitting on the AC unit on one end and the evaporator coil on the other or it is nothing more than a piece of tubing the tech solders to the mechanics at each end. If the line was soldered in place (unlikely given today's plug and play world), the bad joint would be the installer's fault. As such, it is not even a part warranty matter but workmanship which allows you to make a claim for the cost of the refrigerant regardless of anything else. It would simply be defective workmanship or in other words; negligence.


if it was a manufactures soldered joint you are back to checking warranties of the supplier of the parts involved and the installers warranty/

The line was put in by the AC company when they installed the unit. It's not part of the unit itself. Where it comes out of the outside unit it goes about 6" and then makes a 90 degree turn. The 90 is soldered into the tubing. This is where it is leaking. The tech said it was a bad solder job but he won't put it in writing. That's why I thought it should be covered under the AC companies 1 yr. parts/equipment warranty. I never thought about going after them for negligence. Good Idea. Thanks

 

[dvrslim]

I suspect there is no Freon involved here at all though. Given the legal mandates surrounding the phasing out of R22 (which Freon (trade name owned by DuPont) is rather than it's most common replacement of r410a (DuPont manufacturers it under the name of Puron)), I suspect r410a is the refrigerant in play here. I cannot find any pricing that would justify well over $40 per pound (and depending on the size of the system involved, it could calculate to over double that) . It has limited manufacturing locations so I would not see a reason it is so much more in Texas than anywhere else in the US. If it is, anybody game for going in on buying a tanker full up north and delivering it to Texas?

It is R-22. $43 a lb. X 13 lbs. with the home warranty company paying $10 a lb. $33 X 13 lbs. = $429

 

[justalayman]

It is R-22

welcome to the world of using strict definitions of a word that allowed a loophole that allowed you to purchase an r22 unit.




in case anybody doesn't know, the epa outlawed the sale of units containing r22 in 2010. A loophole was found that allowed the sale of a unit with NO refrigerant in it even though it is designed to use r22. The loophole is that the unit is dry shipped, or without refrigerant in the thing. That gets around the technical use of the word "in". There is no r22 IN the unit so it can be sold even though r22 is being put in the unit upon installation.

The units are not officially allowed to be used as new installs. They are considered replacement parts for existing systems but they are being used for new installs none the less.

While r22 is generally considered to be the preferred refrigerant due to it's working properties, many people choose to install an r22 unit.

so, either the OP was sold an old unit that had been sitting around for years or a newer unit that was dry shipped to avoid the intent of the law.


13 pounds? that is what, maybe a 7.5 ton unit? Pretty good sized for a house (at least up north but maybe not in Texas)

The line was put in by the AC company when they installed the unit. It's not part of the unit itself. Where it comes out of the outside unit it goes about 6" and then makes a 90 degree turn. The 90 is soldered into the tubing. This is where it is leaking. The tech said it was a bad solder job but he won't put it in writing. That's why I thought it should be covered under the AC companies 1 yr. parts/equipment warranty. I never thought about going after them for negligence. Good Idea. Thanks

The tech said it was a bad solder job but he won't put it in writing. That's why I thought it should be covered under the AC companies 1 yr. parts/equipment warranty

so the installer soldered the line?

if so, the easiest way is to read the warranty they put on their installation. Unless it excludes refrigerant, they are on the hook for it.

If it excludes refrigerant, only then would I consider the defective work argument which could allow you a means to argue they are liable for the cost of the refrigerant.


but if a solder joint failed within a year, it is obviously an improper installation.

 

[LdiJ]

Ok...I am hijacking this thread a bit but I thought that it might be a humorous aside.

The central air in my home stopped working 4 years ago. For reasons I don't care to explain I was unable to afford to have it replaced. My original unit was installed in yes, 1967. I was told that the cost of recharging the unit would be more than the cost of replacing the unit.

So, I just got a few portable AC units and have lived with it. I have actually been very happy with it because my electric bills dropped dramatically. Dramatically enough that I decided that I had no interest in replacing the central air in the short term. I needed AC in my room, the kitchen and the living room and that was fine for me.

This year my daughter and grandchildren moved back into my home. We had a plumber come out to do some major work. The plumber also had experience with heating and air conditioning. On his own he just tested my unit, because he and my daughter chatted about it, and said it should work. My daughter turned it on and the danged thing works...seriously it works. I am not looking forward to my next electric bill, but the darned thing works.

So we are talking about a system that was 43 years old when it stopped working, and 47 years old when it started working again...with no recharging of any kind...Weird...

 

[dvrslim]

you have multiple possibilities in resolving this depending information not disclosed.



First, I would love to see how a claimed bad solder joint withstood 11 months of vibration but when the tech was working on the equipment, it suddenly failed/


second, I hope it is being repaired before refrigerant is installed. While that seems like a no brainer, given what you are going through now and you made no mention of it, I just wanted to be sure the repair is made first.

so then what you have to do is read the manufacturers warranty on the unit and any warranty the installer may have provided independently as well. There may very well be a limit on the inclusion of the refrigerant. That is something you need to research before getting all set to fight this either way.

on top of all of that, a bad solder joint on a line is the blamed culprit. Were the lines also supplied by the manufacturer of the unit? If not, the only possible source for warranty coverage would be the supplier of the line and it is very likely they have included a limit on what they cover.

I don't see your home warranty being any sort of issue unless the liable manufacturer's warranty includes such a limit. I wouldn't expect to see such a limitation.


so a bit more:

what was soldered on the line that failed? AC lines are quite simple with the line being a single piece of tubing and either a fitting on the end made to engage a fitting on the AC unit on one end and the evaporator coil on the other or it is nothing more than a piece of tubing the tech solders to the mechanics at each end. If the line was soldered in place (unlikely given today's plug and play world), the bad joint would be the installer's fault. As such, it is not even a part warranty matter but workmanship which allows you to make a claim for the cost of the refrigerant regardless of anything else. It would simply be defective workmanship or in other words; negligence.


if it was a manufactures soldered joint you are back to checking warranties of the supplier of the parts involved and the installers warranty/

It takes R-22 freon. 13lbs at $33 a lb. It costs $43 a lb. but the home warranty pays $10 a lb. The line that failed was installed by the AC company when they installed the new AC 11 months ago. About 6" out from the outside unit the line makes a 90 degree turn. A fitting was soldered onto the tubing to make that turn. That is where the joint is leaking. Thanks for bringing up the negligence factor. I didn't think of that.