Change of Jurisdiction - Opinions Please

[3junebugs]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Order is out of PA but I have lived with my son in Maryland since '04.

My lawyer in PA has proposed that we file for a change in jurisdiction to move my custody case to MD. He feels the time is right because I have lived here for almost 8 years, my son, who is 12, has always gone to school here, all his medical treatment and mental health treatment is here in MD. His father has not once taken him for medical treatment in PA, ever, since I moved. My lawyer also has said since Dad only sees our son about 35 nights a year, that's a good enough reason to apply for a change of Jurisdiction. He feels we have a case to say that the only tie left is his father and its a tenuous one at that.

Brief background, our current order is I provide 100% transport to and from PA every 2nd weekend of the month. Father has the option of the 4th weekend, provided he does at least 50% of transportation. Since our order was issued in May, he's never exercised the 4th weekend option. Holiday transportation is also to be shared 50 - 50. He met me once half way to get our son for his summer break. I ended up picking up or son that time because I was already going to be in the state, but even that proved difficult. Dad only sees his son because I take him back and forth. I will always do one weekend per month 100%, no matter what. I don't like it, but I understand that is what I need to do to make sure my son sees his father. If the tables were turned and Dad was responsible for all of the transport, he would rarely see his son.

The reason for the motion is I am constantly going back and forth to PA for hearings. Both custody and support. Our next custody hearing will be the 4th time I have to take his dad to court this year alone. Our case file is 3 telephone books thick, and that's by Philadelphia phone book size standards My lawyer calls my case a "frequent flyer". There are no less the 20 orders issued since my case started over 10 years ago.

My case is in Philadelphia County. Is anyone familiar enough with the court system there to know if I have a shot? My lawyer is quasi-confident, but says its still a gamble. He says I have about a 60-65% shot. It won't hurt but I could end up out of $1000. We would proposed that the order stay the same (the order may change a little because I have a modification hearing on 12/7) but that all future modifications, contempt, and enforcement would happen in my county in MD.

Thanks!

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Order is out of PA but I have lived with my son in Maryland since '04.

My lawyer in PA has proposed that we file for a change in jurisdiction to move my custody case to MD. He feels the time is right because I have lived here for almost 8 years, my son, who is 12, has always gone to school here, all his medical treatment and mental health treatment is here in MD. His father has not once taken him for medical treatment in PA, ever, since I moved. My lawyer also has said since Dad only sees our son about 35 nights a year, that's a good enough reason to apply for a change of Jurisdiction. He feels we have a case to say that the only tie left is his father and its a tenuous one at that.

Brief background, our current order is I provide 100% transport to and from PA every 2nd weekend of the month. Father has the option of the 4th weekend, provided he does at least 50% of transportation. Since our order was issued in May, he's never exercised the 4th weekend option. Holiday transportation is also to be shared 50 - 50. He met me once half way to get our son for his summer break. I ended up picking up or son that time because I was already going to be in the state, but even that proved difficult. Dad only sees his son because I take him back and forth. I will always do one weekend per month 100%, no matter what. I don't like it, but I understand that is what I need to do to make sure my son sees his father. If the tables were turned and Dad was responsible for all of the transport, he would rarely see his son.

The reason for the motion is I am constantly going back and forth to PA for hearings. Both custody and support. Our next custody hearing will be the 4th time I have to take his dad to court this year alone. Our case file is 3 telephone books thick, and that's by Philadelphia phone book size standards My lawyer calls my case a "frequent flyer". There are no less the 20 orders issued since my case started over 10 years ago.

My case is in Philadelphia County. Is anyone familiar enough with the court system there to know if I have a shot? My lawyer is quasi-confident, but says its still a gamble. He says I have about a 60-65% shot. It won't hurt but I could end up out of $1000. We would proposed that the order stay the same (the order may change a little because I have a modification hearing on 12/7) but that all future modifications, contempt, and enforcement would happen in my county in MD.

Thanks!

Non convenient forum. You have grounds. I would give it a try. It would also require that dad -- should he want to file things -- would have to invest time and money. Of course if you have an open case at this juncture, it most likely will NOT get transferred at this time. Why are you taking dad to court four times this year alone?

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Order is out of PA but I have lived with my son in Maryland since '04.

My lawyer in PA has proposed that we file for a change in jurisdiction to move my custody case to MD. He feels the time is right because I have lived here for almost 8 years, my son, who is 12, has always gone to school here, all his medical treatment and mental health treatment is here in MD. His father has not once taken him for medical treatment in PA, ever, since I moved. My lawyer also has said since Dad only sees our son about 35 nights a year, that's a good enough reason to apply for a change of Jurisdiction. He feels we have a case to say that the only tie left is his father and its a tenuous one at that.

Brief background, our current order is I provide 100% transport to and from PA every 2nd weekend of the month. Father has the option of the 4th weekend, provided he does at least 50% of transportation. Since our order was issued in May, he's never exercised the 4th weekend option. Holiday transportation is also to be shared 50 - 50. He met me once half way to get our son for his summer break. I ended up picking up or son that time because I was already going to be in the state, but even that proved difficult. Dad only sees his son because I take him back and forth. I will always do one weekend per month 100%, no matter what. I don't like it, but I understand that is what I need to do to make sure my son sees his father. If the tables were turned and Dad was responsible for all of the transport, he would rarely see his son.

The reason for the motion is I am constantly going back and forth to PA for hearings. Both custody and support. Our next custody hearing will be the 4th time I have to take his dad to court this year alone. Our case file is 3 telephone books thick, and that's by Philadelphia phone book size standards My lawyer calls my case a "frequent flyer". There are no less the 20 orders issued since my case started over 10 years ago.

My case is in Philadelphia County. Is anyone familiar enough with the court system there to know if I have a shot? My lawyer is quasi-confident, but says its still a gamble. He says I have about a 60-65% shot. It won't hurt but I could end up out of $1000. We would proposed that the order stay the same (the order may change a little because I have a modification hearing on 12/7) but that all future modifications, contempt, and enforcement would happen in my county in MD.

Thanks!

It's obvious that YOU decided to move. Why should dad be forced to be inconvenienced for that?

 

[Zigner]

Non convenient forum.

It's only non-convenient because she chose to make it so...

 

[Ohiogal]

It's only non-convenient because she chose to make it so...

That is NOT the point in the law. Because of the doctors, teachers and others who would most likely be called as witnesses being near the child, the law allows her to move the case. The fact that they are frequent flyers seems based on the fact that MOM is continuously taking dad back. Quite frankly that works against her.

 

[Zigner]

That is NOT the point in the law. Because of the doctors, teachers and others who would most likely be called as witnesses being near the child, the law allows her to move the case. The fact that they are frequent flyers seems based on the fact that MOM is continuously taking dad back. Quite frankly that works against her.

The argument, from the dad's perspective, is that it was HER move that caused this. She is already required to pay for the majority of the transportation...if dad fights this, how likely will it be that mom is successful?

 

[Ohiogal]

Under the UCCJEA:

SECTION 207. INCONVENIENT FORUM.

(a) A court of this State which has jurisdiction under this [Act] to
make a child-custody determination may decline to exercise its
jurisdiction at any time if it determines that it is an inconvenient
forum under the circumstances and that a court of another State is a
more appropriate forum. The issue of inconvenient forum may be raised
upon motion of a party, the court's own motion, or request of another
court.

(b) Before determining whether it is an inconvenient forum, a court of
this State shall consider whether it is appropriate for a court of
another State to exercise jurisdiction. For this purpose, the court
shall allow the parties to submit information and shall consider all
relevant factors, including:

(1) whether domestic violence has occurred and is likely to continue in
the future and which State could best protect the parties and the child;

(2) the length of time the child has resided outside this State;

(3) the distance between the court in this State and the court in the
State that would assume jurisdiction;

(4) the relative financial circumstances of the parties;

(5) any agreement of the parties as to which State should assume
jurisdiction;

(6) the nature and location of the evidence required to resolve the
pending litigation, including testimony of the child;

(7) the ability of the court of each State to decide the issue
expeditiously and the procedures necessary to present the evidence; and

(8) the familiarity of the court of each State with the facts and issues
in the pending litigation.

(c) If a court of this State determines that it is an inconvenient forum
and that a court of another State is a more appropriate forum, it shall
stay the proceedings upon condition that a child-custody proceeding be
promptly commenced in another designated State and may impose any other
condition the court considers just and proper.

(d) A court of this State may decline to exercise its jurisdiction under
this [Act] if a child-custody determination is incidental to an action
for divorce or another proceeding while still retaining jurisdiction
over the divorce or other proceeding.

The law allows for it. It is a 50/50 chance quite frankly.

 

[Zigner]

Under the UCCJEA:
SECTION 207. INCONVENIENT FORUM.

(a) A court of this State which has jurisdiction under this [Act] to
make a child-custody determination may decline to exercise its
jurisdiction at any time if it determines that it is an inconvenient
forum under the circumstances and that a court of another State is a
more appropriate forum. The issue of inconvenient forum may be raised
upon motion of a party, the court's own motion, or request of another
court.

The court has already decided NOT to decline to exercise it's jurisdiction. Of course, they "may" decide to change it...but they have a long history with this case and are vastly more familiar with the details.

(b) Before determining whether it is an inconvenient forum, a court of
this State shall consider whether it is appropriate for a court of
another State to exercise jurisdiction. For this purpose, the court
shall allow the parties to submit information and shall consider all
relevant factors, including:

(1) whether domestic violence has occurred and is likely to continue in
the future and which State could best protect the parties and the child;

No mention of this.

(2) the length of time the child has resided outside this State;

1 item in favor of the change.

(3) the distance between the court in this State and the court in the
State that would assume jurisdiction;

We don't have enough information to know this.

(4) the relative financial circumstances of the parties;

We don't really have enough information on this.

(5) any agreement of the parties as to which State should assume
jurisdiction;

Well, if she's asking, there's no agreement. So, no help either way.

(6) the nature and location of the evidence required to resolve the
pending litigation, including testimony of the child;

We don't know the nature/location of any evidence, since we have no details of the pending litigation. So, no help either way.

(7) the ability of the court of each State to decide the issue
expeditiously and the procedures necessary to present the evidence; and

Let's assume they're equal...that would be one item against the change.

(8) the familiarity of the court of each State with the facts and issues
in the pending litigation.

Well, let's assume there is pending litigation - seems to me that the current court is vastly more familiar than the new court.

(c) If a court of this State determines that it is an inconvenient forum
and that a court of another State is a more appropriate forum, it shall
stay the proceedings upon condition that a child-custody proceeding be
promptly commenced in another designated State and may impose any other
condition the court considers just and proper.

(d) A court of this State may decline to exercise its jurisdiction under
this [Act] if a child-custody determination is incidental to an action
for divorce or another proceeding while still retaining jurisdiction
over the divorce or other proceeding.

The law allows for it. It is a 50/50 chance quite frankly.

By my count, excluding the items that don't work either way, it seems to me that we have one item in favor of the change and 2 items against. That's 66.6/33.3.

 

[mistoffolees]

Under the UCCJEA:

The law allows for it. It is a 50/50 chance quite frankly.

I agree that I would try it. The only thing lost is the cost of filing.

If Dad puts up a fight, though, it may not be worth pursuing since Dad has a decent chance if he fights.

However, OP, under some scenarios that I ran, child support will be significantly lower in MD than in PA, so don't be surprised if Dad asks for a new CS order if it does get moved to MD.

 

[3junebugs]

That is NOT the point in the law. Because of the doctors, teachers and others who would most likely be called as witnesses being near the child, the law allows her to move the case. The fact that they are frequent flyers seems based on the fact that MOM is continuously taking dad back. Quite frankly that works against her.

I understand how this appears as so. But the reason I have taken him back have all been primarily safety issues regarding my son. My son has severe asthma and allergies and also has a lot of emotional issues including being diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. We have gone back this year once for a modification he filed and because I filed twice because my son had access to a gun in his fathers home and his father has repeatedly allowed contact with family members that have been proven to have sexually abused our son. We have court orders naming 3 people my son is to have no contact with whatsoever. Since our new order in May, he allowed contact on at least 3 occasions. One I have physical proof because his dad posted a video on YouTube.

In the past I have had to take him to court because of medical issues. His father would have cats when it was proven my son has a severe allergy. His father would refuse to give him his medications for his mood disorder, depression, anxiety, asthma and ADHD and for the exposure he continues to allow with these family members.

I understand that I moved and on the surface, it should be that I provide the transport. My case has a lot more to it. Even though I have moved, the court has sided with me in ordering father to help with the transportation. I did the transportation for 5 years, 2 weekends a month and he would stay with his father for the whole summer break. Even though I did this, he would make it very difficult on me. He would be consistently late or change pick up days and times last minute. He would cause issues just because he felt he can. He lost a lot of credibility because he would lie in court and even when he had a car, made no effort to facilitate a good relationship.

But the main reason for the shift is that back in June of 2009, my son's sister was removed from his fathers home by DHS. He had primary custody of her at the time. There were grounds that caused his father to loose custody / visitation temporarily of our son. When we went back to court in July I was the one the proposed that I will still do one weekend a month and he could come to MD (since the issue had to do with issues with no heat and hot water in his home) any other time for visitation. We had our follow up hearing in September. He decided not to show. We had another hearing in December, he also didn't appear.

At that time I was awarded primary legal and physical custody without prejudiced. No visitation was ordered, however, any time I came to PA I called his father and we made arrangements for visitation. The door was always opened for him to come to MD and to set up to meet up in Baltimore or DC. He filed a modification in October of 2010 with our hearing being in May of 2011. At the time, the judge sided with me that it is now appropriate for Dad to start helping out with transport. Even though I didn't have to, I still took him for the months there was no ordered visitation. It wasn't every month, but it was at least every 6 weeks.

I realize that I have made it inconvenient because I moved. But even since then, he has been making it inconvenient for me. He doesn't' follow our order we have now and does so just to disrupt my household. He tells our son that its' always my fault that our son doesn't go, even though he now has a responsibility of transportation. He makes every excuse under the sun. But then when I do my part, he makes it very difficult. He will consistently be late getting home, or change the pick up place. He knows that I will go and get him because waiting for him to take a bus to get home will take longer - and I still have a 3 hour ride home, with our son, that has to get up at 6 AM for school the next day.

In my case, Dad is very difficult. I haven't always been an angel, and I made this hard on myself in the beginning. But I have realized I have to deal with the courts for a long time. I know I will always have to do some travel. I will do one weekend a month until my son is 18. But that doesn't' mean Dad gets to be an ass all the time just because I moved. It has been determined that I am the parent most likely to facilitate visitation, that is why I have always had primary custody and also why they have shifted some travel responsibilities to Dad.

 

[CameronNewport]

My case is in Philadelphia County. Is anyone familiar enough with the court system there to know if I have a shot? My lawyer is quasi-confident, but says its still a gamble. He says I have about a 60-65% shot.

My guess is that you have a 60-65% shot. Why? Because that's what your lawyer told you.

Your lawyer is likely familiar with how the Philadelphia courts generally rule on this issue, and he knows the details of your case. The people who respond here are not likely familiar with the Philadelphia courts, and they certainly do not know the details of your case. The vast majority are not even lawyers. They have no business disputing anything your lawyer told you.

 

[3junebugs]

My guess is that you have a 60-65% shot. Why? Because that's what your lawyer told you.

Your lawyer is likely familiar with how the Philadelphia courts generally rule on this issue, and he knows the details of your case. The people who respond here are not likely familiar with the Philadelphia courts, and they certainly do not know the details of your case. The vast majority are not even lawyers. They have no business disputing anything your lawyer told you.

I know, but lawyers also want to make money. He will say something is more favorable for my business. I love my lawyer, but I understand that it's strictly business and he wants to make money. I just wanted to hear from others what they have experienced and what they know.

 

[mistoffolees]

I know, but lawyers also want to make money. He will say something is more favorable for my business. I love my lawyer, but I understand that it's strictly business and he wants to make money. I just wanted to hear from others what they have experienced and what they know.

No, CameronNewport is right. Your lawyer's estimate is infinitely better than anyone's estimate here. Every judge and county handles these things differently and knowing how things are done locally is critical. Also, your attorney has all the facts of your case and no one here does.

Although, OG's estimate of 50% isn't all that different from your attorney's 66%.

You will also find that very few attorneys will give you a false expectation in order to drum up more business. Sure, it happens, but not that often. Dishonest attorneys tend to have a lousy reputation in the area, so you'd probably know if yours was that dishonest.

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

No, CameronNewport is right. Your lawyer's estimate is infinitely better than anyone's estimate here. Every judge and county handles these things differently and knowing how things are done locally is critical. Also, your attorney has all the facts of your case and no one here does.

Although, OG's estimate of 50% isn't all that different from your attorney's 66%...

i concur with this, although I would lower the odds for this being approved if Dad is still in the orignal jurisdiction. MD judges and Masters generally(sp), like to keep the "status quo", if possible. And this seems like an "if possible" scenario, so they may not want/accept jurisdiction...

 

[mistoffolees]

i concur with this, although I would lower the odds for this being approved if Dad is still in the orignal jurisdiction. MD judges and Masters generally(sp), like to keep the "status quo", if possible. And this seems like an "if possible" scenario, so they may not want/accept jurisdiction...

It's not up to a MD judge. It's up to a PA judge to surrender jurisdiction - the same PA judge who OP's attorney knows better than you do.