Chapter 7 support for elderly sick relative

[Poorlainie]

What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? Georgia
Elderly aunt 89 terminal illnesses only one other adult relative my brother helps her I have been paying on her credit card bill to help her and also to defray costs Of one last joint trip Where she paid for us to take her as well as other thingsto see her grandson graduate from college and to see dear old friends before she can’t travel anymore and also to help her with living expenses charge on her card. The card is in her name not joint I’ve sent payments on it $2400 this year’s total and $800 on another bill of hers total it’s def not a loan to me. I don’t know it but in full disclosure of my chapter 7 bankruptcy where do I list elderly relative support , She had allowed me as an authorized user for a time so I could make travel arrangements and purchase things she needs because she doesn’t drive but I was never a jointh how do I disclose that ?some of the expenses she incurred providing travel expenses and other joint costs for us and me or does that matter do I list her as an insider who I paid on her debt The card is legally in her name she has full mental faculties and balances all of her checkbooks and does all of her own finances she’s just physically frail so she needs household help and her Social Security retirement checks don’t keep up with the cost of living where do I list that

 

[LdiJ]

I assume that you have a bankruptcy attorney? If not, you really need one. Your attorney should be able to explain to you how you list the support you provide to your elderly relative.

 

[Poorlainie]

I assume that you have a bankruptcy attorney? If not, you really need one. Your attorney should be able to explain to you how you list the support you provide to your elderly relative.

No I’m doing a pro se because I only have credit card debt or use a nonprofit to help me fill out the forms but they can’t give advice on specific questions so no I don’t have an attorney otherwise I would’ve asked the attorney Surely that question

 

[Poorlainie]

No I’m doing a pro se because I only have credit card debt or use a nonprofit to help me fill out the forms but they can’t give advice on specific questions so no I don’t have an attorney otherwise I would’ve asked the attorney Surely that question

Generally they said I have to list it as an insider write it down as non-legally required support since it’s voluntary Un like child support or alimony. Therefore I don’t have anything to put in the box that says how much do you owe since I actually don’t owe anything

 

[LdiJ]

No I’m doing a pro se because I only have credit card debt or use a nonprofit to help me fill out the forms but they can’t give advice on specific questions so no I don’t have an attorney otherwise I would’ve asked the attorney Surely that question

I am sorry, but its very foolish to do a bankruptcy without an attorney. Too much can go wrong.

 

[quincy]

Generally they said I have to list it as an insider write it down as non-legally required support since it’s voluntary Un like child support or alimony. Therefore I don’t have anything to put in the box that says how much do you owe since I actually don’t owe anything

FreeAdvice has a bankruptcy attorney who posts to this forum. You should check back later to see if the attorney ("despritfreya") has had a chance to read your post and respond to your questions.

Good luck.

 

[Zigner]

I'm confused. Why are YOU doing any of this? If you're not an attorney, then you cannot file anything, nor can you complete court paperwork, on her behalf. You cannot represent her.

 

[Zigner]

And, frankly, I don't even see that you've asked a question (although one may have been hidden somewhere in there - hard to tell without punctuation).

 

[LdiJ]

I'm confused. Why are YOU doing any of this? If you're not an attorney, then you cannot file anything, nor can you complete court paperwork, on her behalf. You cannot represent her.

I am confused. Its the OP that is filing bankruptcy, not the elderly aunt he is helping support.

 

[Zigner]

I am confused. Its the OP that is filing bankruptcy, not the elderly aunt he is helping support.

Gotcha - ok, the OP has been charging things on the aunt's card and now wants to figure out how to include that in his BK. Problem is that if he does, then the aunt gets stuck. The OP has no legal obligation to support aunt, so I don't see that as being an allowable deduction.

 

[despritfreya]

I did see the original post but did not have a chance to respond until now. OP really does need to sit down and discuss with an attny as there are several issues with the payment to the family member.

1. We all understand the need to support our elderly parents in some way. Been there - done that.
2. Transfers (gifts) to or for the benefit of the elderly parent for the past two years must be disclosed on at least one of the following questions on the Statement of Financial Affairs: Question 13 or 18.
3. Continued payment in an average monthly amount should be listed on Schedule J - item 19.
4. The Chapter 7 trustee can attempt to recover the payments made for the 2 years prior to filing all the way back to 4 years depending upon State law.
5. If the parents have no assets and the only source of income is SS, for the most part, who cares if the Trustee comes knocking since SS cannot be garnished. However, this is why you need to talk to an attny. The aggressiveness of a particular trustee can be specific to that trustee and local custom when it comes to elderly relatives. You need to know what to expect and without the assistance of an attny you are flying blind.

Please note - charging items for mom on mom's cc is not an issue. What is an issue is paying mom's cc out of your own pocket.

Hope this helps.

Des.

 

[Zigner]

I did see the original post but did not have a chance to respond until now. OP really does need to sit down and discuss with an attny as there are several issues with the payment to the family member.

1. We all understand the need to support our elderly parents in some way. Been there - done that.
2. Transfers (gifts) to or for the benefit of the elderly parent for the past two years must be disclosed on at least one of the following questions on the Statement of Financial Affairs: Question 13 or 18.
3. Continued payment in an average monthly amount should be listed on Schedule J - item 19.
4. The Chapter 7 trustee can attempt to recover the payments made for the 2 years prior to filing all the way back to 4 years depending upon State law.
5. If the parents have no assets and the only source of income is SS, for the most part, who cares if the Trustee comes knocking since SS cannot be garnished. However, this is why you need to talk to an attny. The aggressiveness of a particular trustee can be specific to that trustee and local custom when it comes to elderly relatives. You need to know what to expect and without the assistance of an attny you are flying blind.

Please note - charging items for mom on mom's cc is not an issue. What is an issue is paying mom's cc out of your own pocket.

Hope this helps.

Des.

One note: The OP is not dealing with a parent - the OP is dealing with an aunt.

 

[Poorlainie]

WE USED THE FREE LAWYER PRO BONO CLINIC THAT IS ATTACHED T O THE COURTHOUSE , THEY ARE CHAPTER 7 FREE HELP,
WE HAVE NO ASSETS, NO REALESATE, NO MONEY ACCOUNTS, JUST A TINY 401K, AN OLD CAR AND OLD FURNTIURE, NET WORTH ALL
IS 14k. WE WORK 24/7 TAKING CARE OF HER, WE DONT CHARGE ON HER CARDS, SHE NEEDS THINGS FOR HERSELF HAS CANCER BUT IS IN FULL
MENTAL FACULTY, SHE CANNOT DRIVE OR LEAVE THE HOUSE OFTEN, SO WE GET HER THNGS FOR HER, WE BOTH WORK FULL TIME AND HARD AND HAVE NEVER TAKEN ONE CENT OF ANY GOVT MONEY,

NOONE ASKED FOR IT TO BE AN ALLOWABLE DEDUCTION, WE ONLY INCLUDED A SMALL CAASH ALOTMENT FROM OUR PACHECK TO HER AS AN EXPENSE ON THE PAYCHECK AND DISCLOSED IT WAS FOR ELDERLY SUPPORT ON THE PAYROLL DEDUCTIONS AREA.

I WELL PASS THE MEANS TEST SO I DONT KNEED IT FOR ANY DEDUCTION. I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO HEAR ANY THOUGHTS OF HOW TO LIST
THE SUPPORT WEE CHOOSE TO GIVE A SICK RELATIVE WHO RAISED US. NOONE IS RAMMING HER CARD WITHOUT HER PERMISSION!!!

THE PROBONO CLINIC TOLD US THEY SEE ELDERLY SUPPORT IN RURUAL AREAS LIKE OURS OFTEN, FAMIIES DO STICK TOGETHER DOWN
HERE, BUT WHEN I GOT SICK MYSLELF I HAD NO CHOICE !!!!

THEY SAID THAT HELPING ELDERLY IS OK AND EVENIF THE TRUSTEE WANTS IT BACK, WE CAN PAY THE TRUSTEE, SO THEY
DO NOT KNOCK ON THE DOOR OF A STAGE 4 CANCER PATIENT!! WE JUST GOT THAT INFO TODAY FROM A LAWYER.

SO WHEN YOU GO ON THIS SITE AND CHOOSE TO PASS SARCATIC JUDEMENT RATHER THAN TRY TO HELP WITH AN ANSWER,
MAYBE YOU SHOULD STICK TO JUST THE QUESTION, WE DID DISCLOSE IT AS AN INSIDER PAYMENT ON THE DEBT OF SOMEONE ELSE
I THANK THE FREYA, YOU UNDERSTOOD MY QUESTION, I AM NOT LOOKING TO GAIN A DEDUCTION, SIMPLY WHERE TO HONESTLY LIST
THAT PAYMENT ON HER CARD

 

[Poorlainie]

I THINK WE WILL JUST FOLLOW THE ADVICE OF THE PROBONO CHAPTER 7 CLINIC LAWYER. FREYA IS THE ONLY ONE ON HERE WITH
DECENCY REGARDING SHARING EXPERTISE. WE WILL DELETE OUR ACCT HERE SINCE WE HAVE NO TIME FOR CRUEL RASH JUDGEMENTAL
COMMENTS FROM NON ATTORNEY ZINGER