Childcare costs not be paid / housing for childcare

[Ohiogal]

I am not selling anything

Supporting mom In exchange for childcare not only provides me better childcare (and yes he does have tutors from the school that I advocate and he for him as well as respite hours to get him the support my mom can't)
I don't pay for those things thankfully

If I had to pay for someone a dollar amount for what she watches them hourly
It would cost atleast 450 a week

I can't afford that neither can he
So offering /supporting my mother for a cost of about 700 a month
To me is best for my children
And financially less of a burden for my ex and myself

Noone is "selling "anything

I am trying to provide for my children effectively and cost efficiently
What's the problem with that

So your mom is going to claim EVERY DIME you pay her as income on her taxes? Then she will pay tax on that amount. Which means there will be less money in your household. I hope dad fights on you on the false child care expenses. You have no evidence of anything that you have paid and it would be easy to paint you as attempting to commit fraud upon the court. Oh and you will have to pay employment tax on that amount (you are aware of that, right?). Social security and Medicare. She will also need to inform social security of the income she is getting. Should we continue with why you haven't thought this through and you trying to scam dad out of more money is not going to be easy? Oh and if dad is able to convince the court that you have attempted to commit fraud, look at you having zero credibility.

 

[stealth2]

No, grocery bills, etc. will not increase child support. You may need to adjust your menus and layer if it's cold.

 

[Gypsymomof3]

This is an interesting forum.
Im getting the feeling everyone is quite jaded and perhaps have seen many people abusing the other parent .
Perhaps these are the indivdiuals who are failing to see i the FISCAL EFFICIENCY of what I am doing to help us BOTH ensure our children have affordable and quality child care.
It would be more difficult for him to come up with 1/2 of 450 a week for reall chilcare versus 1/2 of 187.50 a week.

Does anyone see what Im trying to explain.
Noone is swindeling anyone
THE CHILDREN NEED CHILDCARE.
PERIOD
and this is the most cost effective way.

if I was to pay mom 750 a month for what she provides in childcare,
and then she pays me back 750 a month for her living expenses
this would still be less than paying say 450 a week to an hourly provider! (if mom wasnt around and I would be forced for "real cash value child care").

This helps us BOTH afford to support the children.

ANyhow, noone is trying to attempt fraud
these are real money
real costs and real expenses.
I see know I have to handle the tax and income issue (even though its LESS than what needs to be claimed)

I apologize for sparking some peoples "sore" spots.
I could only imagine what you have seen or heard.
Sometimes though realize there ARE real parents who are trying to do the RIGHT thing for BOTH parties.
And yes it IS frustrating that my EX is not seeing this , and is "taking advantage" of the "circumstance" and also convienently regurgitates the same thing , the no sayers have been saying
"well thats YOU choice and YOUR arrangement"
However, If I go the "legitimate" route it will be difficult for him to pay for "REAL" childcare
People do what they have to , in order to survive and make ends meet.
He not disclosing income from second source is also something I will have the judge investigate.
I have pulled the corporate paperwork, and have proof this IS an active business, so he will need to submit his tax returns.
HOpefully this will increase the support he should be paying.

But I understand its a heated argument for all here
and I really do appreciate your insight (as hostile as some of them are )

Keep you all posted.

So your mom is going to claim EVERY DIME you pay her as income on her taxes? Then she will pay tax on that amount. Which means there will be less money in your household. I hope dad fights on you on the false child care expenses. You have no evidence of anything that you have paid and it would be easy to paint you as attempting to commit fraud upon the court. Oh and you will have to pay employment tax on that amount (you are aware of that, right?). Social security and Medicare. She will also need to inform social security of the income she is getting. Should we continue with why you haven't thought this through and you trying to scam dad out of more money is not going to be easy? Oh and if dad is able to convince the court that you have attempted to commit fraud, look at you having zero credibility.

 

[Zigner]

However, If I go the "legitimate" route it will be difficult for him to pay for "REAL" childcare

In essence, you are admitting that your scheme (no quotes needed) is fraudulent. Otherwise, go ahead and get real childcare.

People do what they have to , in order to survive and make ends meet.

Some people decide to not do it fraudulently though.

He not disclosing income from second source is also something I will have the judge investigate.

The judge is not going to investigate. That's not his/her job...it's yours.

I have pulled the corporate paperwork, and have proof this IS an active business, so he will need to submit his tax returns.
HOpefully this will increase the support he should be paying.

That would be a legitimate avenue to pursue.

 

[Eekamouse]

Stop pretending this is something it's not. The bottom line is you want your ex to pay you to support your mother. He should not have to do that.

 

[I'mTheFather]

Although your arrangement won't fly, I don't think you're intentionally attempting to defraud anyone.

So, why not use a qualified provider and have your mom cover some of the household bills with her social security income to balance the cost of day care?

 

[single317dad]

OP, if this is such a win/win for both of you, why not present it to the ex that way and see what he says? If you take this to court for enforcement, I wouldn't blame the judge for denying the petition without a hearing. That's how ridiculous forcing this issue is. If the two of you can agree? Doesn't matter what I, the judge, or anyone else thinks.

 

[gam]

I'm sorry I don't see OP trying to scam or fraud. All she did was ask a question that I myself sought the answer to when my daughter lived in my home and I was caring for her child. I had an agreement with her, I watched the child in exchange for room and board for both her and the child. Now I did not have an agreement with her ex, nor did she. I was giving care for their child and it was not free, so we didn't see why he should not pay a portion of the childcare. We were not trying to scam anyone, the child needed to be cared for while both he and she worked and went to college.

When I went researching I discovered what you all said that without actual money being paid, the courts would not look at it. She got that part and said fine she understands she will pay her mom for the care and in return have her mom pay for her room and board. But yet she is still being accused of scamming(or whatever words were used). All she wants is her ex to pay childcare for his children, as she does just not with money exchanged.

Your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

OP pay your mom, she in turn will have to report as income. You can ask the court to count it then because your actually paying her. If she turns around and pays you for some room and board, that has nothing to do with either her taxes or your ex and his portion of the child support. That is your mom paying rent and food bills to you. It's all legit as long as you both follow the IRS laws on it. The children have 2 parents, it would cost the other parent far more to hire someone or put these children in daycare. Since you have a special needs child it would even far more expensive. In the end despite was is being said here, your saving dad money and your trying to find cost effective ways to make the most of your money, dads money and your moms money.

 

[Gypsymomof3]

Thank you Gam

For recognizing how this arrangement HAS theoretically Helped both of us in child care expenses

I will not be asking for BACK pay of this arrangement (except for what I have receipts for in camps).
I wanted to be prepared for "going forward" in having the judge consider the modification in support.

Now I have a better understanding with those of you who have walked this path before me!

It is CLEAR , I am sure that some sort of Child care has been being provided... I happened to find this the one that makes the MOST fiscal sense for Myself and my ex

The arrangement I have with my mom currently does benefit all involved, primarily the children , but financially us the parents.
As you mentioned it would certainly be a much larger financial burden for both HE and I if I was to secure
"day care or qualified professional".

Just want to be prepared and I appreciate all the feedback.

Basically the bottom line II have learned is this:
CHILD SUPPORT:1. Hopefully the active corporation papers I will submit will show he is not disclosing all income if he does not have it on the "affidavit of support" or brings in the tax returns of that venture.
The CASH on the side for this business is gonna be very challenging to account for.

CHILD CARE: Need receipts of actual monies exchanged going forward. As well as claiming on tax returns.
BUT I will submit in good faith (even if its not going to be "honored") monthly childcare agreement which shows I A bill for moms 25 hours a week of childcare services $375.00 (5 hours $15 dollars 5 days)
and payment method: full time monthly room including utilities and food

Even if the judge will discount this claim, as you mentioned he WILL, atleast it shows the accountability of HOW child care has been being afforded.regardless of how "unorthodox" it is

thank you

I'm sorry I don't see OP trying to scam or fraud. All she did was ask a question that I myself sought the answer to when my daughter lived in my home and I was caring for her child. I had an agreement with her, I watched the child in exchange for room and board for both her and the child. Now I did not have an agreement with her ex, nor did she. I was giving care for their child and it was not free, so we didn't see why he should not pay a portion of the childcare. We were not trying to scam anyone, the child needed to be cared for while both he and she worked and went to college.

When I went researching I discovered what you all said that without actual money being paid, the courts would not look at it. She got that part and said fine she understands she will pay her mom for the care and in return have her mom pay for her room and board. But yet she is still being accused of scamming(or whatever words were used). All she wants is her ex to pay childcare for his children, as she does just not with money exchanged.

Your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

OP pay your mom, she in turn will have to report as income. You can ask the court to count it then because your actually paying her. If she turns around and pays you for some room and board, that has nothing to do with either her taxes or your ex and his portion of the child support. That is your mom paying rent and food bills to you. It's all legit as long as you both follow the IRS laws on it. The children have 2 parents, it would cost the other parent far more to hire someone or put these children in daycare. Since you have a special needs child it would even far more expensive. In the end despite was is being said here, your saving dad money and your trying to find cost effective ways to make the most of your money, dads money and your moms money.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I'm sorry I don't see OP trying to scam or fraud. All she did was ask a question that I myself sought the answer to when my daughter lived in my home and I was caring for her child. I had an agreement with her, I watched the child in exchange for room and board for both her and the child. Now I did not have an agreement with her ex, nor did she. I was giving care for their child and it was not free, so we didn't see why he should not pay a portion of the childcare. We were not trying to scam anyone, the child needed to be cared for while both he and she worked and went to college.

But this isn't the same thing at all. In your case, the childcare was free. You provided child care, and room and board to your daughter and grandchild. There was no reciprocal financial benefit. If anything, that arrangement should have reduced the father's financial obligation. Your daughter's and grandchild's living expenses were drastically reduced because they had no expenses for child care, rent, or food.

we didn't see why he should not pay a portion of the childcare.

But pay a portion of what, exactly? If he must pay his share of her various costs, the formula for this one would be any given percentage of zero.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you Gam

For recognizing how this arrangement HAS theoretically Helped both of us in child care expenses

I will not be asking for BACK pay of this arrangement (except for what I have receipts for in camps).
I wanted to be prepared for "going forward" in having the judge consider the modification in support.

Now I have a better understanding with those of you who have walked this path before me!

It is CLEAR , I am sure that some sort of Child care has been being provided... I happened to find this the one that makes the MOST fiscal sense for Myself and my ex

The arrangement I have with my mom currently does benefit all involved, primarily the children , but financially us the parents.
As you mentioned it would certainly be a much larger financial burden for both HE and I if I was to secure
"day care or qualified professional".

Just want to be prepared and I appreciate all the feedback.

Basically the bottom line II have learned is this:
CHILD SUPPORT:1. Hopefully the active corporation papers I will submit will show he is not disclosing all income if he does not have it on the "affidavit of support" or brings in the tax returns of that venture.
The CASH on the side for this business is gonna be very challenging to account for.

CHILD CARE: Need receipts of actual monies exchanged going forward. As well as claiming on tax returns.
BUT I will submit in good faith (even if its not going to be "honored") monthly childcare agreement which shows I A bill for moms 25 hours a week of childcare services $375.00 (5 hours $15 dollars 5 days)
and payment method: full time monthly room including utilities and food

Even if the judge will discount this claim, as you mentioned he WILL, atleast it shows the accountability of HOW child care has been being afforded.regardless of how "unorthodox" it is

thank you

A) You are assuming his corporation pays him or earns him income. Or a profit. It might not.
B) You pay you mom for childcare, you also need to pay the employer's share of taxes as well as unemployment insurance and various other things. You should look into it. Those costs by the way will NOT be passed on to your ex. You will also need to make sure a W-2 is prepared for your mother at the end of the year. You have not thought this through at all. Be prepared for you to be asked for your records of actually paying your mother and taking care of the employer taxes and unemployment insurance.
C) Your monthly child care agreement is ridiculous as you have stated you didn't have one. This is something that will be prepared strictly for court, isn't it? The payment method is not cash. HENCE, your ex will NOT have to contribute to it. But continue on with your fantasy.

 

[gam]

A) You are assuming his corporation pays him or earns him income. Or a profit. It might not.
B) You pay you mom for childcare, you also need to pay the employer's share of taxes as well as unemployment insurance and various other things. You should look into it. Those costs by the way will NOT be passed on to your ex. You will also need to make sure a W-2 is prepared for your mother at the end of the year. You have not thought this through at all. Be prepared for you to be asked for your records of actually paying your mother and taking care of the employer taxes and unemployment insurance.
C) Your monthly child care agreement is ridiculous as you have stated you didn't have one. This is something that will be prepared strictly for court, isn't it? The payment method is not cash. HENCE, your ex will NOT have to contribute to it. But continue on with your fantasy.

A)Agree and the court is not going to look into what you don't provide them or what you don't ask them that he provide on this business. Really hard to do this without a lawyer, to complicated.

B)Really all of that is not that bad for the low amount that she would be paying her mom. She should look into it as you suggest. Depends on her states child support formula because those taxes one pays for the childcare provider can be used in some child support formulas. She might only need to do a 1099, something she should look into. OP needs to keep in mind that as the CP she will be able to claim all the childcare(that includes dads portion)on her personal income taxes(gonna add at least last year you could, have not tackled my taxes yet, so that could have changed). That often will more then cover the other stuff here.

C)It's not ridiculous, she made an agreement with her mother, she just didn't realize that agreement would not hold up in court without paperwork, it's why she came and asked her question. Up to this point the method was not cash, but OP can start doing checks or money orders(cash should not be used, as then she has no paper trail for the court), and the court can consider it without any back proof. She should start paying mom by check and take those checks with proof that they were cashed by her mom to court. Very possible that the court will let it go with warnings that in the future they will require the rest of the paperwork(taxes paid and all of that).

She should check her child support formula, child support laws for her state. There might be something in there on this, I know there is in my state as that is how my daughter got the court to use this without all the extra paperwork to support it. It's not like OP is asking to go backwards for this childcare money. She is talking about this point forward, which is what my daughter did. Don't know if it will work, the court could say nope wait till you do this for a year and provide all that tax proof, but she might get the go ahead to start this now(unless of course there is something in her state's child support legal stuff that would not allow it, but that is easy for her to find out ahead of time).

 

[gam]

But this isn't the same thing at all. In your case, the childcare was free. You provided child care, and room and board to your daughter and grandchild. There was no reciprocal financial benefit. If anything, that arrangement should have reduced the father's financial obligation. Your daughter's and grandchild's living expenses were drastically reduced because they had no expenses for child care, rent, or food.



But pay a portion of what, exactly? If he must pay his share of her various costs, the formula for this one would be any given percentage of zero.

Sorry I messed that up, it is the same as the OP. I did charge her room and board and childcare, but we just didn't actually exchange the money because it was basically a wash, each amount was about the same. Same as OP is saying she is doing, her mother watches the children, she does not pay her, instead she just takes that off of what her mom would pay her for room and board and it's basically a wash.

The portion dad should pay is half of what those childcare costs are. Why should he not pay her mother for watching the children? She is, just not on paper.

Does not matter anyways, as mom can remedy this by actually exchanging this money between herself and her mother, following the rules of her CS support formula and obligations they both will have to taxes and such. That is what my daughter and I do and he is charged through his child support for both his percentage of a roof(and all those living expenses of the child)and his percentage of the childcare that his child uses.

 

[>Charlotte<]

Sorry I messed that up, it is the same as the OP. I did charge her room and board and childcare, but we just didn't actually exchange the money because it was basically a wash, each amount was about the same.

No, it's not the same.

OP provided room and board, and in return OP's mother provided childcare.
You provided room, board, and childcare. What did your daughter contribute?

 

[sandyclaus]

On top of everything else, OP would also have to report the room and board her mother "pays" for as RENTAL INCOME and report it on her taxes accordingly.

That additional income that OP receives also changes the balance of child support that she CAN receive. That's an additional $700 per month she's would be earning as income on top of the income from her own employment. (This assumes that BOTH incomes are considered before assigning a straight percentage as the support obligation to the NCP.)