Confused in NJ

[jamccor]

My family is renting a house from a landlord who owns a real estate business thats sits on the same lot as our house. For 13 years we have paid him rent through direct deposit.Never late, not even once. When we first moved in he told us that his business and our house shared the same well, so for instance, if we lost power at our house, his business would have no running water. To avoid any problems, he had the electricity put in his name and told us to just add a set amount to the direct deposit that was already going to him to cover the monthly bill. We said fine, settled on an amount that seemed fair and that was that. This was in 2012. From that day until just this month we never saw an electric bill so we just assumed what we paid him was what was owed. Fast forward to July 2018 where we asked him if he could please replace the air conditioner that wasn't working in our living room and never worked since we moved in. He balked at first but conceded on the condition that if the electric bill went up we would cover it. The sheet that came with the air conditioner said that if we used it a certain amount of hours a day we could save a certain amount of money so we did that. Anyway, he emailed us in August saying that our bill had exceeded what it usually was by $200 and he told us we needed to increase our amount we sent him. He sent us a copy of the bill and it was almost $600. He said our normal bills were in the $300 range.We pay him $435 a month just for electric. We didn't know what to do so we investigated with JCP&L. We got the bill history going back to the beginning of 2017. For 2017 alone, we over paid him almost $1500. For 2018, we overpaid him the same but since there were 4 months that we went over, it came out to like $800 we overpaid him. To make a long story short, do I have the right to demand to be paid back everything I overpaid him? The reason I am hesitant to ask that is because in the 13 years we have lived in our house, he hasnt raised the rent once which I think is unheard of in New Jersey or maybe anywhere for that fact. For a one family house built in probably the 1960's, we pay $1450 a month. Our landlord has a reputation in our town as being ,lets say "unkind" and not great when it came to repairs and generally being understanding. We don't want to start a war but just want what's fair. Any advice?
Thanks

 

[Gail in Georgia]

No, you don't have the legal "right" to demand to be paid back what you consider you overpaid him.

If you decide to sue for this amount the court will likely point out you accepted this arrangement without question since 2012.

In addition, if you are now on a "month to month tenancy" you may find that the end result is either an increase in your rent or the landlord decides to terminate your lease altogether. Since your rent has never been raised in 13 years you might consider all of this before you make your decision.

Gal

 

[jamccor]

Thanks for your input Gail. Though I doubt a court would side with my landlord if I decided to sue him, which I wouldn't do anyway. In an email from my landlord, he stated that we would adjust upwards or downwards the amount we give him depending on the bill. Since my landlord never gave us a copy of any monthly bill until recently ,we were left in the dark. Thats only arrangement I accepted. As for termination, I also feel he would have a difficult time with that as well. What grounds does he have?

 

[Zigner]

To avoid any problems, he had the electricity put in his name and told us to just add a set amount to the direct deposit that was already going to him to cover the monthly bill. We said fine, settled on an amount that seemed fair and that was that.

That is why you almost definitely would lose in court if you were to sue. You agreed on a set amount and have been (happily) paying it for ~six years.

 

[Zigner]

As for termination, I also feel he would have a difficult time with that as well. What grounds does he have?

What grounds do you feel he needs?

 

[jamccor]

He needs a reason to evict us. How can you evict someone if they are complying with everything? As for the set amount we agreed upon, the deal was that he would let us know if the bill went down then we would adjust it. He never sent us any statements therefore he kept the money knowingly. How is that legal in any way,shape or form?

 

[Zigner]

He needs a reason to evict us. How can you evict someone if they are complying with everything? As for the set amount we agreed upon, the deal was that he would let us know if the bill went down then we would adjust it. He never sent us any statements therefore he kept the money knowingly. How is that legal in any way,shape or form?

Do you have a current lease that you signed?
If not, then he can simply terminate your tenancy. It's not an eviction...

 

[jamccor]

The last lease I signed was in July 2005 when I moved in.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

Please understand the difference between "eviction" and "termination" of a lease.

This is why Zigner asked if you have a current lease. Do you?

Gail

 

[Zigner]

The last lease I signed was in July 2005 when I moved in.

Then your LL can send you a notice of termination, per your state's laws.

 

[jamccor]

I do not have a current lease. The only thing I ever signed was on the day me and my family moved in 13 years ago. I don't know. Is that normal procedure? I always thought a landlord had to have a reason to evict somebody. I could understand if I refused to pay an increase in rent, or if I caused damage, if I was late in rent payments, if I became a nuisance in some way but I haven't had any of that happen. If I were him, I would think I am the type of tenant you would want to keep. This is the only issue I have ever had with him. I am actually giving him not only my rent money on time but I am giving him roughly an extra $1000 a year for electric. Doesn't anybody see the problem here?

 

[Zigner]

I do not have a current lease. The only thing I ever signed was on the day me and my family moved in 13 years ago. I don't know. Is that normal procedure? I always thought a landlord had to have a reason to evict somebody. I could understand if I refused to pay an increase in rent, or if I caused damage, if I was late in rent payments, if I became a nuisance in some way but I haven't had any of that happen. If I were him, I would think I am the type of tenant you would want to keep. This is the only issue I have ever had with him. I am actually giving him not only my rent money on time but I am giving him roughly an extra $1000 a year for electric. Doesn't anybody see the problem here?

The "problem" is that you have been fine with this situation for more than a decade. You AGREED on a specific amount and have been fine with paying that amount all this time. Moving forward, yes, things should change. For the past amounts, though, you really can't expect to get all of the money back. Negotiate with the LL, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't go in stomping your feet about getting $8,000 back. Ask for a few years worth and settle for something less.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

There is nothing wrong with asking.

What do you plan on doing if your landlord says "nope"?

And, again, we are NOT talking about your landlord evicting you but simply ending your month to month tenancy should they wish to do so (and you could do the same thing if you wished to find another residence where you would control the electric bill).

Gail

 

[jamccor]

Maybe your misunderstanding me. I am really not trying to get anything back from him at all. My only issue was that he wanted more money to pay for the higher electric bill over the summer but my argument was that I am already overpaying him by hundreds of dollars a year. Doesn't anybody agree with me that he should be responsible for the overage during the hotter months?

 

[Zigner]

Maybe your misunderstanding me. I am really not trying to get anything back from him at all. My only issue was that he wanted more money to pay for the higher electric bill over the summer but my argument was that I am already overpaying him by hundreds of dollars a year. Doesn't anybody agree with me that he should be responsible for the overage during the hotter months?

We didn't misunderstand at all. Your initial question was this: To make a long story short, do I have the right to demand to be paid back everything I overpaid him?

Now you have a new question. Legally, I would agree with you that you and the LL have agreed upon a fixed amount each month for electricity. In order to change that, he would need to give you proper notice, which could be anywhere from 30-90 days (look up your state's laws.)