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CVC 24250 Driving at night with lights off

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CdwJava

Senior Member
Does that mean if I choose to do the actual trial I loose the ability to request traffic school and remove the point off of my record? Also how many times per year can one attend traffic school? By the fact that you worked there for 8 years, did your comment apply to the Oceanside court or a different one in San Diego itself?
Unless things have changed since 2001, traffic court for North County is held in San Marcos.

The common practice is that if you lose at trial, you will not have the option of traffic school. However, the judge can - and they often do - show mercy under the right circumstances.

If you have never attended traffic school, you should be eligible now. As a matter of fact, if you get a courtesy notice it should provide that information for you.


- Carl
 


I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
I know you are trying to give me a hard time (for a good reason too, because I bet that is what court is going to be like)
Well, OK if you wanna take it that way!!! :rolleyes:

... but I will try and justify myself again anyways.
Nice try... but again, the examples that you are using are not justifying in any way that you, just because you are "you" (I guess) dont deserve to pay the full fine and get the violation point for it as well...

I think you're still missing the big picture... And that picture is about taking responsibility for your actions, or lack thereof. Its about admitting fault, saying I am no different and no better than anyone else who has received a citation for no headlights at night, manned up and paid it. You obviously cannot justify why you should be treated any differently than anyone else who walks into court on that same day as you...

Now lets flip the tables a bit.
Let's assume you were sitting in court and some guy got called up... Judge asked him how do you plead, he said: "guilty with an explanation... Then he went on for 15 to 20 minutes trying to convince the Judge that he should get a break!
Finally the Judge says OK, Mr. Whiner, case dismissed...
You get called next and in answer to a plea request by the Judge you say "Guilty with an explanation" Judge says heck, no, I'm not doing this all day.. "Guilty" pay the fine.

Now THAT, is unfair! What you are suggesting is that you wanna be Mr. Whiner, and that would be acceptable to you... It's what you wanna hear. But to be Mr. Responsible and get ordered to pay the full fine, nope, you think you deserve to keep trying until you get a break... a free break, all while everyone in court that day, that week, that month, and that year gets hammered by the Judge into paying the full fine!
Why?

As for the rest of your post, there's no doubt that Carl has patiently addressed most if not all your questions...

But I do have one more statement of yours to address:
sorry for persisting...
Presisiting? Let me ask you this... when/if you appear in court, will you still make the arguments that you tried to make her before the Judge? Are you seriously gonna try and convince him/her by using the same logic/explanation you used here?
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
One more thing based on the 65% show up rate below, I have to reschedule the date because I will be in school (finals week actually) during the DEC 3rd court date. Does the rescheduling make my chances better of not having the cop show up (especially if it is more near Christmas)?
That's a 65% appearance rate for the DEFENDANTS at an ARRAIGNMENT... not a trial.

LAPD officers get paid to attend trials, so do the CHP. They attend probably somewhere in the 90% range.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That's a 65% appearance rate for the DEFENDANTS at an ARRAIGNMENT... not a trial.

LAPD officers get paid to attend trials, so do the CHP. They attend probably somewhere in the 90% range.
So do the Sheriff deputies...
And, here's even more of an incentive. It's OVERTIME PAY!
 

CrookedSystem

Junior Member
I got this same ticket tonight (cvc 24250). I was 1 block from my house and forgot to turn the headlights on. Any decent human being would have given me a warning for such a minor infraction but police officers aren't always rational people (mostly not at all). Besides being overloaded with hormones and testosterone most of them are in strict competition with each other. They love feeding off of the citizens. It costs an arm and a leg plus a hit on insurance for such s silly thing. I'm sure the insurance companies are in bed with the city cops, the whole system is corrupted and the court clerks assume you're a liar automatically even though you pay their salary, they're usually worse than cops. Most of them are ugly, bitter people who hate their jobs so they treat everyone like trash. I love this system! I hope my $200 helps put food in that cops mouth since he's taking it out of my kids mouths.

Sleep well officer.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I got this same ticket tonight (cvc 24250). I was 1 block from my house and forgot to turn the headlights on. Any decent human being would have given me a warning for such a minor infraction but police officers aren't always rational people (mostly not at all).
Of course. :rolleyes:

All because the officer COULD have given you a warning does not mean he should have. Were you polite and apologetic when he approached? Or, were you angry and argumentative? ... Kinda like you have displayed here?

Besides being overloaded with hormones and testosterone most of them are in strict competition with each other. They love feeding off of the citizens.
Of course we do. :rolleyes:

It costs an arm and a leg plus a hit on insurance for such s silly thing.
Then you might want to change insurance companies. First of all, this is a ZERO POINT violation. PLUS! It is also a correctable violation! Even if the officer did mark it as correctable, a judge can still let you go for $35 flat if you can show proof of correction.

Most of them are ugly, bitter people who hate their jobs so they treat everyone like trash.
I don't know any that are like that ... but, obviously I don't know the same people you do. Oh, wait, you don't really KNOW any of them, you are just venting and spewing absurd generalities. Understandable.

I love this system! I hope my $200 helps put food in that cops mouth since he's taking it out of my kids mouths.
If the violation is for anywhere near $200 you got cited for something other than (or in addition to) 24250.

Sleep well officer.
I am sure he did.

Oh, and if you wish to ask any real questions, please start your own thread. If this was just to vent, I am glad we could be of some assistance by allowing you that opportunity.
 

CrookedSystem

Junior Member
All because the officer COULD have given you a warning does not mean he should have. Were you polite and apologetic when he approached? Or, were you angry and argumentative? ... Kinda like you have displayed here?
Fair question. I was very, very nice to the officer. I had a cigarette lit when he came to the window and I noticed the smoke was going towards him so I said, "Officer, would you like me to put my cigarette out, I'm sure it very annoying to you." And then I put it out in my ashtray. I didn't do that because he's a cop, I did it because he's a person and it's the kind thing to do. I smiled and said "yes sir" or "no sir" accordingly. I'm not stupid, I was trying to avoid a ticket not get one.

The officer was nice too but he still gave me a ticket because I'm sure it made him feel better about himself or maybe he was trying to impress the female cop who was with him. Who knows, cops are human too. The only reason I appeared angry with my post is because I had just gotten a ticket and can't afford to pay it because my kids need to eat. I mean $220! WTF kind of rip off is that? Does the punishment fit the crime? Accidentally not turing headlights on? Jesus! Maybe they aren't human after all.

Of course we do.
I know you do. There is nobody on Gods green earth that is more power hungry and corrupt than the LAPD except for maybe the NYPD. Everyone knows this.

Then you might want to change insurance companies. First of all, this is a ZERO POINT violation. PLUS! It is also a correctable violation! Even if the officer did mark it as correctable, a judge can still let you go for $35 flat if you can show proof of correction.
Correction? You mean like NOT forgetting to turn my headlights on a block from my house? My headlights aren't broken, I forgot to turn them off as I pulled out of my drive way. The cop knew this, he could literally see my house from where I was pulled over.

I don't know any that are like that ... but, obviously I don't know the same people you do. Oh, wait, you don't really KNOW any of them, you are just venting and spewing absurd generalities. Understandable.
You're right, I apologize, I was just really, really upset at the time. Sorry.

If the violation is for anywhere near $200 you got cited for something other than (or in addition to) 24250.
I say $200 because the ticket is $150 plus traffic school to keep it off my record.

Oh, and if you wish to ask any real questions, please start your own thread. If this was just to vent, I am glad we could be of some assistance by allowing you that opportunity.
Right on. I just wanted everyone else who visited this thread in the future to know what kind of cops are really out there. No sympathy. Sure, this guy didn't beat me or shoot me to death like cops love to do but he did put a gun to my head financially speaking.

I am a member of the L.A. cop watch. We walk around L.A. with video cameras hoping to catch crooked cops in action, we've had tremendous success. What I do is make people aware of our crooked system.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Cops aren't hired to give warnings. Part of their duty is "traffic enforcement"... And if you are caught committing an alleged violation, it is that officer's duty to cite you and leave it up to the judge to decide your guilt or innocence. The system which you're claiming is "crooked" affords you a fair opportunity at defending yourself. So go to court, plead not guilty and then prove to the court that you did not commit the violation and your case will be dismissed. Otherwise, pay the fine and quit whining about the system working like it should be!!!

And for future reference, drive within the limits of the law and you wouldn't have to pay any fines, take food out of your kids' mouths or have a gun put to your head, financially speaking...

I am a member of the L.A. cop watch. We walk around L.A. with video cameras hoping to catch crooked cops in action, we've had tremendous success. What I do is make people aware of our crooked system.
Do tell... Got any examples of these "videos" that you've been "tremendously successful" at making???

You're not "making people aware" of ANYTHING by simply "making a claim".

Specifically, you got caught driving with your headlights OFF -a FACT that you ARE ADMITTING! That is a violation of the vehicle code (whether you like it or not AND regardless of how far you were from your house). If you were on a public road, then you are bound by the same laws that fairly and equally apply to anyone and everyone... So how does that make this cop heartless or merciless? How does it make the system "crooked"???

I guess its always much easier for someone to point the finger at the cop (or at the system, for that matter) instead of manning up and accepting responsibility for their own ignorant and crooked actions!!!

Lastly, if you have a question or a comment, then start your own thread or post in the thread that you already started.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I mean $220! WTF kind of rip off is that? Does the punishment fit the crime? Accidentally not turing headlights on?
First, $220 is about 50% higher than the recommended state bail and fee schedule amount for the offense. How do you know it is $220? Have you gotten the notice in the mail already?

Second, the police have NOTHING to do with establishing the fee schedule.

I know you do. There is nobody on Gods green earth that is more power hungry and corrupt than the LAPD except for maybe the NYPD. Everyone knows this.
"Everyone?" We're not over generalizing, are we? :rolleyes:

Correction? You mean like NOT forgetting to turn my headlights on a block from my house? My headlights aren't broken, I forgot to turn them off as I pulled out of my drive way. The cop knew this, he could literally see my house from where I was pulled over.
Yes, the section you were cited for (CVC 22450) is a correctable violation. Even if the officer did not indicate it as such on the citation, the court CAN allow it to be and can then assess the $35 fee for that. Or, they can go with the non-correctable fine and fees for about $156, I believe.

You're right, I apologize, I was just really, really upset at the time. Sorry.
No prob. Getting upset is natural.

I say $200 because the ticket is $150 plus traffic school to keep it off my record.
It is a ZERO point (0 points) violation. Traffic school will avail you nothing. Unless your insurance company dings you because you got a ticket, and not as a result of points, there is really no reason to do traffic school. Before you do traffic school, you might want to call your insurer.

Right on. I just wanted everyone else who visited this thread in the future to know what kind of cops are really out there. No sympathy. Sure, this guy didn't beat me or shoot me to death like cops love to do but he did put a gun to my head financially speaking.
The point is that he does no have to give you a warning or have sympathy for your plight. Was it petty? Maybe. Was it lawful? Seems so.

As for impressing his female partner, LAPD ride two to a car - except for supervisors - so there will always be a second officer.

I am a member of the L.A. cop watch. We walk around L.A. with video cameras hoping to catch crooked cops in action, we've had tremendous success. What I do is make people aware of our crooked system.
Personally, I can think of more profitable and pleasurable activities to fill my leisure time, but whatever floats your boat.
 

TCD

Junior Member
I just got the email saying that someone replied to this post after a year or so since my situation happened. I must admit that I forgot even starting this post. My main intention was to find advice, but also to create a tread with a conclusion that could be found by searching google as there was no real help/conclusion I could find about the issue when I was seeking help.

My conclusion is that I had no idea how the court system worked. I walked in expecting to talk one-on-one to the commissioner and explain my whole story to get the fine reduced or have the ticket thrown out (lol I know... that was ignorance at its finest) If that was not enough, I showed up on the date the ticket asked me to show up (not noticing that it said show up by) and expected it to be a trial with the officer present. I also expected it to be the part where if the officer did not show my case would be thrown out. For anyone that has not received a ticket before and has these same expectations please know that YOU ARE WRONG... lol In order to get to the part where if the cop does not show up you case is thrown out, you must first plead not guilty (in my case in court with the commissioner), then waste your time by attending a real court case that is scheduled shortly afterword. Because I did not know that, I ended up in a court room with all the other people with traffic tickets pleading guilty, not guilty, or no contest. The commissioner would allow no explanations at all. In fact instead of stating any of the pleas, I asked if there was any way possible to get my fine reduced as there was a completely valid excuse but understood that he clearly did not want to hear it. He flat out said no. I pleaded guilty, paid the fine, and took traffic school to clear the point. (yes there is a point for this violation if traffic school is not taken)

Regardless of my conclusion, because of my valid excuse I now wish that I fought the case by pleading not guilty. Depending on the mercy of the court you can get the fine reduced or the violation cleared with an excuse. If all else fails at least you tried and I believe you can still take traffic school. You also have the chance of the officer not showing up. The only reason I pleaded guilty is that I was ignorant at the time and got called first so I was caught way off guard. I encourage anyone to fight this case if you have a valid reason and unlike me, the time.

On a slightly related note I found an interesting website bashing traffic tickets and the corrupt court system with many valid points and interesting information. Along with this article I thought that many of the related articles on the blog are pretty interesting. Check it out: Traffic Tickets Are Big Business
 

CrookedSystem

Junior Member
I Got Banned wrote:

Cops aren't hired to give warnings. Part of their duty is "traffic enforcement"... And if you are caught committing an alleged violation, it is that officer's duty to cite you and leave it up to the judge to decide your guilt or innocence. The system which you're claiming is "crooked" affords you a fair opportunity at defending yourself. So go to court, plead not guilty and then prove to the court that you did not commit the violation and your case will be dismissed. Otherwise, pay the fine and quit whining about the system working like it should be!!!
I know that cops aren't hired to give warnings. I know all the technical jargon and guidelines but sometimes in life you can make exceptions based on discretion. Technically at my job I'm not required to answer the phone and be polite but I do because it's the right thing to do and it makes people happy. There shouldn't be a fine for a silly accident that caused no harm.

The punishment does not fit the crime. Sure, the cops don't write the law but they protect it. Why would you choose to protect something that is unfair and hurts people financially? Boggles the mind.

And for future reference, drive within the limits of the law and you wouldn't have to pay any fines
Oh sure because you've never forgotten to turn your headlights on before? It's not like I was drunk and driving or something. Geez! Why is everything so black and white with you people?

Do tell... Got any examples of these "videos" that you've been "tremendously successful" at making???
Please, take your time and enjoy the site. You may not like what you see.

Cop Watch LA

There's a good article in there about an L.A. cop that got arrested for raping a17 yr old girl. I wonder if she was breaking the law as well?

You're not "making people aware" of ANYTHING by simply "making a claim".
Why don't you look at the site and then put your money where your mouth is? We have a HUGE member list and growing rapidly. We operate numerous blogs and produce numerous videos making people aware of the crooked police state that is California.

How does it make the system "crooked"
First of all the system is crooked because of the court costs and fees and taxes and time consuming bs that goes into taking care of a simple, harmless accident. The system is corrupt because of cops that feel like they are King Kong or God who shoot people and get off with a wrist slap, most of which (in the towns I've lived) are racists. I could go on for days but it's not what I am here to talk about.

I guess its always much easier for someone to point the finger at the cop (or at the system, for that matter) instead of manning up and accepting responsibility for their own ignorant and crooked actions!!!
Hey I admitted my guilt. I'm not going to plead not guilty because I was clearly guilty and I'm an honest person. Yes my mistake was ignorant but it was an accident, plain and simple. My lights weren't broken.

Lastly, if you have a question or a comment, then start your own thread or post in the thread that you already started.
Yes sir! Right away sir! God knows I was way of topic by posting a comment about my cvc 24250 ticket in a thread entitled.....oh never-mind.

BTW I like the quote by Franklin in your signature. Here is my favoirte quote from a Founding Father.

"“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.”"

-Thomas Jefferson
 

TCD

Junior Member
I do have to say lol to the quote wars. For a free advise forum it is more of a place to get bashed but there still is some good information in it. I just ignored most of it and now after everything is over, think that anyone claiming that the court system is not corrupt as well as claiming that a simple (correctable, and non intentional) mistake is breaking the law to the point of deserving a $200+ fine is a complete idiot.
:p

From the blog I mentioned earlier:
The police enforce laws that result in direct benefits to police agencies and personnel. Judges hear cases in which a “guilty” verdict would have tangible financially rewards for the court and courthouse personnel. No other class of “crime” is as profitable for state and local governments as is that of traffic tickets. Traffic courts cannot be fair and unbiased when their financial welfare depends on traffic fines. Additionally, local government encourage traffic enforcement practices that rip off travelers to support local government services and to reward government employees. Yet these hypocrisies go largely unnoticed.
 

CrookedSystem

Junior Member
First, $220 is about 50% higher than the recommended state bail and fee schedule amount for the offense. How do you know it is $220? Have you gotten the notice in the mail already?
I read here in this forum that the ticket is about $150 and then add traffic school costs. $220 was a mistype I meant $200 and that's an estimate. If the entire thing only cost me, say, $50 I wouldn't be here in this forum right now. That's a reasonable price for an accident.

Second, the police have NOTHING to do with establishing the fee schedule.
No but they enforce it which makes them guilty by association. They enforce it with a giant smile on their faces.

"Everyone?" We're not over generalizing, are we?
I think you know what I meant. Pretty much everyone knows the fact that the LAPD is ultra corrupt. They make movies after movie about it, turn on the radio and hear show after show about it. Google: LAPD corrupt and see what you get. Most people know this to be a fact. Of course a police insider wouldn't have any clue and would think the whole system is perfect.

Yes, the section you were cited for (CVC 22450) is a correctable violation. Even if the officer did not indicate it as such on the citation, the court CAN allow it to be and can then assess the $35 fee for that. Or, they can go with the non-correctable fine and fees for about $156, I believe.
Great, we are getting somewhere now. So how do I go about getting it corrected? Do I have to plead not guilty?

It is a ZERO point (0 points) violation. Traffic school will avail you nothing. Unless your insurance company dings you because you got a ticket, and not as a result of points, there is really no reason to do traffic school. Before you do traffic school, you might want to call your insurer.
The poster above stated from experience that it does involve a point.

The point is that he does no have to give you a warning or have sympathy for your plight. Was it petty? Maybe. Was it lawful? Seems so.
Obviously he doesn't have to do anything nor have sympathy for my accidental mistake, just goes to show what kind of person he is. Again, everything is so black and white with you people, where is the sympathy? We're all human.

As for impressing his female partner, LAPD ride two to a car - except for supervisors - so there will always be a second officer.
That was a joke. Next time I'll use a smiley.

Personally, I can think of more profitable and pleasurable activities to fill my leisure time, but whatever floats your boat.
Oh, trust me, there is NOTHING more satisfying than exposing corruption. It's a natural high that's hard to put into words. I'm sure a few cops can relate. There is nothing that makes me more sick at my stomach than watching news clips of cops beating someone senseless or tasering an 80 year old man and getting away with it (and those examples are watered down). To expose that kind of behavior gives you a rush. I saw a cop a few months ago beat an old lady in the head with a club because she was riding her bike through a group of protesters. He got off free though despite the footage.
 

CrookedSystem

Junior Member
TCD wrote:

On a slightly related note I found an interesting website bashing traffic tickets and the corrupt court system with many valid points and interesting information. Along with this article I thought that many of the related articles on the blog are pretty interesting. Check it out: Traffic Tickets Are Big Business


Yes and thank you for the link. Tickets are very big business. It's the government that allows such unfair treatment and they use their little slaves aka the cops to enforce their corruption.


Agreed. You'd think if the cops were so hell bent on protecting the citizens they would be protesting these things rather than beating the protesters in the streets for exercising free speech.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
No but they enforce it which makes them guilty by association. They enforce it with a giant smile on their faces.
Traffic enforcement is part of the job. Granted it is a minor part of the job, but is still part of the job. And, if the officers are part of a traffic enforcement unit, they almost always give cites. It is what they are expected to do.

Pretty much everyone knows the fact that the LAPD is ultra corrupt.
The stats just don' bear that baseless allegation out, sorry.

They make movies after movie about it, turn on the radio and hear show after show about it.
Allegations are EASY ... all anyone has to do is make a claim, even if not true. The LAPD now has a system by which officers get negative points for every allegation against them - false or not. So, when it comes time for promotion or transfer, they get denied because they have these allegations. So, what has happened is that many officers have turned into REACTIVE officers as opposed to PRO-active ones.

Allegations are easy. Defending against an allegation is almost impossible as the agency and the officer(s) involved are forbidden by law and policy from refuting most such claims. And when the refutation comes out, the proof is buried. Read about the Rampart scandal, compare the number of indictments and allegations to the end result and you will see what I mean.

I'll be concerned when the day comes that any act of officer malfeasance does NOT make news. And the fact that an incident is repeated over and over again does not mean that there is a culture of corruption or that the agency is "ultra corrupt." But, I am sure that nothing I, or anyone else, will say will convince you otherwise, so all I can do is shrug it off and say that I believe you are wrong.

Google: LAPD corrupt and see what you get.
I get links to news art5icles from old stories, the Rampart scandal, and an assortment of blogs by rather biased folks.

Most people know this to be a fact. Of course a police insider wouldn't have any clue and would think the whole system is perfect.
Never said the system was perfect ... but, as I AM on the inside, I see far more of how it works than you do. I actually KNOW the people involved. And, as a side note, who do you think breaks most allegations of police corruption and malfeasance? Oh yeah, it is other cops!

Great, we are getting somewhere now. So how do I go about getting it corrected? Do I have to plead not guilty?
You appear in court, plead not guilty, and ask if the violation is correctable. if so, you might have ask what is acceptable proof of correction to the court. they do not HAVE to make it correctable, but they can.

The poster above stated from experience that it does involve a point.
That's contrary to the 2009 bail and fee schedule. But, the courts do not assign points, the DMV does. So, looking on the DMV website, it appears that 24250 is, indeed, a one point violation. That's what I get for looking at only one resource.

Obviously he doesn't have to do anything nor have sympathy for my accidental mistake, just goes to show what kind of person he is. Again, everything is so black and white with you people, where is the sympathy? We're all human.
What he did was legal, whether it was something I would have done or not. Ranting about it is fine, but in the end the rant does nothing to change the situation you are in. At this point, you go in and plead not guilty, ask if it is correctable, and if it is you later bring in some proof of correction. What that might be, I can't say off hand - usually it's a sign off on the back of the citation.

if the court says they will not make it correctable, then you will either have to challenge the citation or will have to plead guilty and ask for traffic school. Challenging it could be ... a challenge, as your defense seems to be that it was an accident. That is effectively an admission of guilt. But, you can attend court, hope the officer does not show up, and then move for a dismissal. if he shows up, you will likely be offered a chance to plead guilty before trial and get traffic school.

That was a joke. Next time I'll use a smiley.
We're cops. We don't have a sense of humor.

- Carl
 
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