Debtor: Gave my salary as gift to my friends

[not2cleverRed]

Request more feedback.

Look up "Transfer to insiders" in researching the subject.

Have you every heard of the phrase "Spirit of the law versus letter of the law"? In the context of your situation, I suspect that the statutes were intended to allow a person to not be completely crushed by debt to the point of being destitute.

You gave money that could have gone towards your debt to family/friends instead. You have given no compelling reason for doing this. Therefore, it looks suspicious.

It's not like you were tithing.

It's not like you made any attempt to pay a dime of debt.

And FYI: 2019 was only 3 years ago. Your creditor is doing nothing absurd by pursuing it "after all these years".

 

[not2cleverRed]

Rather than buying exempt assets from the remaining money in my bank account (where my salary gets deposited), I gifted to my friend and relatives by directly transferring that remaining money to their accounts within 6 months.

What was your ACTUAL or CONSTRUCTIVE INTENT in doing this?

 

[albertstm]

You can quote statutes till the cows come home but you aren't changing this non-lawyer's opinion.

In a relevant post https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/head-of-family-debtors-savings-can-be-attached.662464/ adjusterjack wrote the following, by supporting the debtor, when a creditor posted a question:

“No, it's not [that is, debtor, who is head of family, depositing his/her salary in his TBE account with his spouse is not fraudulent transfer, although the debtor was not depositing that salary in a TBE account in the past]. In your case [that is, in the case of the creditor who posted in the forum] it [that is, fraudulent transfer/conversion] just doesn't apply to the debtor because he [debtor] didn't make a fraudulent conversion, he made a legal conversion [by putting debtor's salary in TBE account of the debtor]. The [fraudulent transfer or fraudulent conversion] laws aren't designed to impoverish debtors for the benefit of creditors. Even bankruptcy allows (to a certain extent) a debtor to keep his house, his car, many personal belongings, cash, and his post bankruptcy income.”

Many people form this forum supported that.

If what adjusterjack wrote in the earlier thread is true then it is obvious that the debtor can do anything with the salary (deposited in the TBE) including directly transferring that salary as gift to the friends and relatives of the debtor. It appears that adjusterjack and some others are using a different tone in the current situation I am facing. Is there a reason for that change in the tone?

 

[adjusterjack]

You're missing the distinction between the Riggins situation and yours. Riggins put the money in a TBE account owned by him and his wife. It was still his money for use to pay their usual living expenses.

I'm not contradicting myself.

 

[LdiJ]

Look up "Transfer to insiders" in researching the subject.

Have you every heard of the phrase "Spirit of the law versus letter of the law"? In the context of your situation, I suspect that the statutes were intended to allow a person to not be completely crushed by debt to the point of being destitute.

You gave money that could have gone towards your debt to family/friends instead. You have given no compelling reason for doing this. Therefore, it looks suspicious.

It's not like you were tithing.

It's not like you made any attempt to pay a dime of debt.

And FYI: 2019 was only 3 years ago. Your creditor is doing nothing absurd by pursuing it "after all these years".

A dime of the debt in question. We don't know what other bills the OP paid.

 

[albertstm]

You're missing the distinction between the Riggins situation and yours. Riggins put the money in a TBE account owned by him and his wife. It was still his money for use to pay their usual living expenses.

I'm not contradicting myself.

There are many places where tenancy by entirety (TBE) is explained. Example, https://www.deedclaim.com/florida/tenancy-entirety/

“Property held as tenants by the entirety is unavailable to the creditors of one spouse who obtain a judgment against him or her. If one spouse ends up with a lawsuit judgment, property owned as tenancy by the entirety is protected. Creditors cannot look to tenancy by the entirety property to satisfy a judgment against one spouse.”



Therefore, the debtor can deposit his salary in TBE with his wife and can do whatever they wish with that TBE money, including gifting it to their friends and relatives (that is what I have done, but I did not put in TBE, that is only difference). I believe that you are contradicting yourself blindly, rather than accepting your mistake based on flawed arguments. I am feeling sorry to see this forum has a senior member like you who is giving these kinds of advice which I believe are openly contradicting himself/herself and damaging the forum's quality. Good bye.

 

[stealth2]

I'll ask again - why are you so intent on not paying your debt?

 

[stealth2]

you're going to a heck of a lot of trouble to avoid what is apparently a legitimate debt.

 

[adjusterjack]

I am feeling sorry to see this forum has a senior member like you who is giving these kinds of advice which I believe are openly contradicting himself/herself and damaging the forum's quality. Good bye.

Typical shoot-the-messenger response from a poster who didn't get patted on the head and told they were right.

You are welcome to explain yourself to the judge just like you have explained yourself here.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Therefore, the debtor can deposit his salary in TBE with his wife and can do whatever they wish with that TBE money, including gifting it to their friends and relatives (that is what I have done, but I did not put in TBE, that is only difference).

Sometimes one single difference in facts can make a difference in outcome. I'll repeat what I said before: see a lawyer in your state who represents debtors in collection actions. That's where you'll get your best answers. Since you are now facing a fraudulent conveyance action you'll need that expertise anyway in court. A lot depends on how Florida courts have ruled on these kinds of transfers in the past, and I don't think anyone here has exhaustively researched that. Your lawyer should be able to tell you how likely it is that the action will succeed and give you advice on how best to protect your assets from creditors.

Ultimately, of course, the best way to get the creditor off your back is to pay what you owe. Paying the creditor would have done you more good than making true gifts of the money to friends and relatives, regardless of whether the transfers will be set aside as a fraudulent conveyance. And if they were not true gifts, that opens up a whole new box of potential problems for you.

 

[albertstm]

Thanks. Will eventually contact an attorney if I can, as I have no money to spend now (I am living with food, etc. donated by my child), and the persons who received those gifts from me too have no money or assets (not even a dime) and some fo them left this country for good. I know the creditor will come back to square one even if he proves that it is fraudulent transfer. I do know that there are no debtor jails in Florida. If necessary, I too leave this country and settle where I came from. Therefore I am planning to represent myself for the time being in the court and "play" with law.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks. Will eventually contact an attorney if I can, as I have no money to spend now (I am living with food, etc. donated by my child), and the persons who received those gifts from me too have no money or assets (not even a dime) and some fo them left this country for good. I know the creditor will come back to square one even if he proves that it is fraudulent transfer. I do know that there are no debtor jails in Florida. If necessary, I too leave this country and settle where I came from. Therefore I am planning to represent myself for the time being in the court and "play" with law.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadbeat (with some light editing):

Definition of deadbeat
1: Loafer
2: one who persistently fails to pay personal debts or expenses (see: albertstm)

 

[stealth2]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadbeat (with some light editing):

Definition of deadbeat
1: Loafer
2: one who persistently fails to pay personal debts or expenses (see: albertstm)

And I didn't even use that word! You scanning us, Zig?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Thanks. Will eventually contact an attorney if I can, as I have no money to spend now (I am living with food, etc. donated by my child), and the persons who received those gifts from me too have no money or assets (not even a dime) and some fo them left this country for good. I know the creditor will come back to square one even if he proves that it is fraudulent transfer. I do know that there are no debtor jails in Florida. If necessary, I too leave this country and settle where I came from. Therefore I am planning to represent myself for the time being in the court and "play" with law.

Let me guess: you also represented yourself in your civil case. Look where that got you. Expect no better this go around.

Your intent comes across as intentionally fraudulent.