Debtors Prison

[acemagoo61]

What is the name of your state? New Hampshire

I keep seeing the statement "There is no such thing as a debtors prison in America" posted on your web site. But you can go to jail for not paying a debt. The creditor takes you to court and then if you don't pay you go to jail for contempt of court. While it requires an extra step by the creditor, you can and people do go to jail for credit card debt.

One example I am closely aware of happened last year. A mother with two children receiving $600 a month from AFDC was brought to court for a $300 credit card bill. With lawyer and court fees added up to over $800. She was told if she failed to pay $50 a month she would go to jail for contempt of court. She could not get help from leagal aid.

Shouldn't people know if you don't pay your bills, you could eventually go to jail for it. Just because it takes a judgement first does not mean that "There is no such thing as a debtors prison in America". There is and people do go.

 

[bigun]

The creditor takes you to court and then if you don't pay you go to jail for contempt of court. While it requires an extra step by the creditor, you can and people do go to jail for credit card debt.


That statement is total BS.
The only way you go to jail over debt is if you fail to answer an information subpomea regarding assets, income, etc.

 

[Who's Liable?]

When was the last time you heard Joe Schmo was doing 5 years because he didn't pay his Long Distance Bill?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

You don't go to prison for not paying your bills, or not paying a judgment. You go to jail for "contempt of court", which means "disobeying a court order". Contempt is "quasi-criminal" in nature, and that's why people go to jail - - not because of the debt itself. Fool.

IAAL

 

[acemagoo61]

Splitting Hairs

My response:

You don't go to prison for not paying your bills, or not paying a judgment. You go to jail for "contempt of court", which means "disobeying a court order". Contempt is "quasi-criminal" in nature, and that's why people go to jail - - not because of the debt itself. Fool.

IAAL

Don't you think that is splitting hairs?

The above example happened as stated. The contempt of court root cause is an inability to pay a bill. We are not talking about someone who has assets or money. Yes, they paid the judgment, so they did not go to jail for contempt. They and the children suffered. Call me a fool, but you lack enough mind to comprehend the extent of the situation.

Two children, teenagers, no car, no TV, no phone, $600 a month in income, closest supermarket is over 30 miles away. Fact was there was an interim hearing that this person never was notified of as the court was required to do. Person was unable to get help from legal aid and couldn't afford a lawyer (keep in mind, $600 a month; I've used to pay more than that in a week in income taxes!!!).

Truth really is the court clerk either dropped the ball on the notification or an interim party did (mailman, sheriff, whatever) and this person is threatened with imprisonment. The court clerk, mail man, sheriff, whoever, were paid to do something, they failed in their duty. Don't start with lofty ideals that they could have gotten a lawyer and fought it (there is no money for a lawyer).

The law is convoluted, many things are hidden, and an awful lot of lawyers who are "Experts" in a particular field make mistakes and are unaware of all the ins and outs.

Personally I have talked to about five or six lawyers about a particular issue in bankruptcy. Most said outright they were not sure how they would handle it. Other's had different approaches. None agreed with each other or the advice I have been given on this board. I was able to get from this board an exact law on point that would protect the asset I am personally interested in. Legally I am entitled to this asset, but if my lawyer makes a mistake, I am screwed not him, he gets his fee, competent or not. He told me I should be safe, in rare occasions a trustee may try to seize the protected asset. Should that happen he would make a maneuver to get the bankruptcy released (As a layman I would think appealing a trustee's and/or judges erroneous decision would be the right thing to do), leaving me still exposed to creditors even though the correct application of the law protected me.

It is scary; there are posts on here where people have not been treated justly due to someone who is an officer of the court not doing their job correctly. You may say one could sue the lawyer, do you have a list of lawyers who happily sue other lawyers? What do you do if a trustee doesn't follow, ignores or is ignorant of the law?

Before you say this only happens on rare occasions, I know that. But if you are the person this happens too, this is severely life altering in the negative aspect.

Please tell me where I can find a lawyer that will guarantee an outcome in a case where the intent of the law is clear or pay the money themselves and I will hire them for twice the amount just for a piece of mind.

Only the richest of people or entities can afford lawyers to keep fighting should the law not be justly applied. Does that sound fair? The rich are safe in bankruptcy, the poor take their chances.

 

[Who's Liable?]

So quit whining and get rich...

 

[acemagoo61]

Lol

So quit whining and get rich...

I have blown a few chances, didn't want to walk over the bodies.

 

[Ladynred]

Fact was there was an interim hearing that this person never was notified of as the court was required to do.

THAT is what she was sent to jail for, it has NOTHING to do with not paying the judgment. Sounds like she was summoned to court for a debtor's exam and she missed it. NOT going to that debtor's exam was contempt of court, for which she was apparently jailed. People don't pay debts, and 85% of all judgments go unpaid .. and there are NOT thousands of people going to jail for it !

If she's on the public dole, she should have qualified for legal aid, so perhaps she did something else wrong if legal aid refused her.

 

[acemagoo61]

THAT is what she was sent to jail for, it has NOTHING to do with not paying the judgment. Sounds like she was summoned to court for a debtor's exam and she missed it. NOT going to that debtor's exam was contempt of court, for which she was apparently jailed. People don't pay debts, and 85% of all judgments go unpaid .. and there are NOT thousands of people going to jail for it !

If she's on the public dole, she should have qualified for legal aid, so perhaps she did something else wrong if legal aid refused her.

Legal aid where she is said they didn't handle that kind of case.

She was never notified, by mail or the sheriff (not sure of the proper procedure). Where she lives is extremely rural, the court is smaller than most homes, can you say Kangaroo. I once went to someone’s house up there and there was a summons stuck between the door knob and frame. They were not home, I was nosey, I took a look, they served the wrong address. I would think a summons to appear would come in registered mail (the post office is not as depenable as most of us are used to) or be served in hand. If they just dump them off and make a mistake, what can you do?

She was notified of the court date and didn’t find out about the previous date until she got to court. It was then that the judge ordered her to pay $50 a month or she would be found in contempt and jailed. She didn’t go to jail, she was threatened, she paid.

She would never blow off a court date. Maybe he really wouldn’t have put her in jail if she didn’t pay it, she didn’t even think of seeing what would happen. (I do admit that I have only heard, not known, of cases where people were jailed for contempt for not paying a judgment).

Personally I would feel a lot more comfortable in a metropolitan city court then in a rural town court (they have some secluded small cities in this state and I have heard of things that I just did not believe at first. Seems like they make up their own rules if you can’t afford a lawyer.).

P.S. I know a doctor up there that was chewed out and threatened with contempt by a judge in front of the court because of not previously showing up to testify. She was never notified, she said she thinks it is actually the clerk not doing what she is supposed to do. I personally droped off an affidavate once for someone with the clerk, I was told that it never made it into the file. I told her she was nuts for living there, sure you can leave your door unlocked, no one is going to try to come in the middle of the night or rip you off if your not home, you don't have to fear criminals, just the law.