Deceased tenant, month to month, initial contract (not a lease) expired

[Zigner]

WRONG: When an allegation is introduced into court, whether a criminal charge, a civil complaint, or any other allegation, such as this Probate claim case, the burden of proof is upon the accuser or introducer of the allegation.

Petitioner: I have business records showing that we received no payments for rent for the period of xxx to zzz.

Respondent: I have no evidence to show that the petitioner's records are wrong.

Judge: I find in favor of the petitioner for the full amount requested.

 

[Zigner]

No, but my apartment manager, who has been such for over 30 years, has been through everything imaginable. Apparently the dec.'s landlord hasn't. By the way, are you an attorney?

Nope. I am not. But I CAN tell you that, legally speaking, the LL is well within his rights (and obligations) to not let an unauthorized person enter the unit.

Think about it. Let's say your dad had a collection of rare coins worth several thousand dollars. His long-estranged brother KNOWS about these coins, so throws together a "will" that says he is the rep of the estate. Would you be upset if the brother had entered the apartment and taken those coins? Would you have been suing the LL if he had let the brother in to the estate without proper documentation?

Your LL is wrong. Period.

 

[reyn562]

The death of a tenant does not make the current lease void. A month to month lease is as valid as the original and requires that rent be paid for occupying the unit..duh. Of course the rent is going to accrue while the estate has it..thinking otherwise is silly. The estate is absolutely responsible for all rent from the time of death until the unit was cleared out and keys given back to the landlord. Why would you think otherwise? As for past due rent, prove it was paid..the landlord can't prove, nor is he required to prove that it wasn't.

"The dec. didn't keep good financial records, which is not cast upon me to prove the rent was paid": Actually, as the executor, it IS cast upon you if your disputing the charge.

At best, then, the Estate only owes two months of rent: the month the tenant died (March), and the month of April, up to May 9, when the premises were vacated. I do not owe utilities as they were not used during those two and a quarter months.

Basically these types of laws vary from state to state. You are from Colorado, where the laws are apparently different from here in SC.

 

[Zigner]

At best, then, the Estate only owes two months of rent: the month the tenant died (March), and the month of April, up to May 9, when the premises were vacated. I do not owe utilities as they were not used during those two and a quarter months.

Ahh, so you CAN show that the rent was paid for the other months then? Excellent. As for the utilities, if the unit wasn't vacated, then the utilities may very well be owed.

 

[reyn562]

Petitioner: I have business records showing that we received no payments for rent for the period of xxx to zzz.

Respondent: I have no evidence to show that the petitioner's records are wrong.

Judge: I find in favor of the petitioner for the full amount requested.

PROBLEM: Petitioner didn't have ay records or they would have been submitted as original claim. Petitioner admitted he had no proof of non-payment.

 

[Zigner]

The will was notarized. The Probate Court clerk said it would have been okay.

Wow, probate clerks are now involved in the unlawful practice of law in your state? Amazing.

 

[Zigner]

It is obvious you are only here to have folks tell you that you are right. Good day to you.

 

[reyn562]

It is obvious you are only here to have folks tell you that you are right. Good day to you.

No: I came here to FreeAdvice to get some advice from a lawyer or a person who is familiar with this type of law IN MY STATE, not from some wannabe-attorney maniac in California!!

 

[justalayman]

My present landlord (I live in SC but am 2 1/2 hours from the deceased's landlord's location) told me that all I had to do was show the will and that would have satisfied the landlord's requirement. There is no law that states that one must be appointed to take over an estate, especially when time is of the essence for the removal of personal belongings.

Your LL in SC is full of stuffing.

There is no law that states that one must be appointed to take over an estate,

true but there is a law that says if you are not the PR/exec/ whatever for the estate, you have no legal right to touch anything that belongs to the estate. Being appointed pr/exec is what gives you the right to do anything on behalf of the estate.

PROBLEM: Petitioner didn't have ay records or they would have been submitted as original claim. Petitioner admitted he had no proof of non-payment.

So, just how do you have a record of not receiving rent? Maybe a blank ledger and tell the judge; if he paid rent, it would have been recorded here. As you can see, there is no record of rent payments so that means he didn't pay the rent.




and I see you changed what the $2700 is for. You said it has been 5 months and it was $500 per month costs. That give you $2500. The rest was trivial. Now you want to claim it is for past due rent.

At best, then, the Estate only owes two months of rent: the month the tenant died (March), and the month of April, up to May 9, when the premises were vacated. I do not owe utilities as they were not used during those two and a quarter months.

yet before you said it was 5 months. and yes, the estate owes any utilities charged to the dwelling if that was the contract. If they were not used, then there should be a record of no usage.

Basically these types of laws vary from state to state. You are from Colorado, where the laws are apparently different from here in SC.

this is contract law. A contract does not terminate because of the death of one of the parties.

 

[justalayman]

The will was notarized. The Probate Court clerk said it would have been okay.

ok for what? a bird cage liner? absolutely. As legal proof of anything; nope. Not until it is validated by the courts.

 

[reyn562]

Your LL in SC is full of stuffing.

and so are you!

true but there is a law that says if you are not the PR/exec/ whatever for the estate, you have no legal right to touch anything that belongs to the estate. Being appointed pr/exec is what gives you the right to do anything on behalf of the estate.

Not here in SC, nor in Florida!

So, just how do you have a record of not receiving rent? Maybe a blank ledger and tell the judge; if he paid rent, it would have been recorded here. As you can see, there is no record of rent payments so that means he didn't pay the rent.

Apparently the landlord didn't have a ledger or he would have shown it to me. Besides, the absence of entries could be explained in a plethora of ways.

and I see you changed what the $2700 is for. You said it has been 5 months and it was $500 per month costs. That give you $2500. The rest was trivial. Now you want to claim it is for past due rent.

I didn't change anything: read the original post!!

yet before you said it was 5 months. and yes, the estate owes any utilities charged to the dwelling if that was the contract. If they were not used, then there should be a record of no usage.

Once again, I didn't say anything before: what I said is that the landlord is making a claim total of 5 full months of rent and utilities, which is ridiculous!

this is contract law. A contract does not terminate because of the death of one of the parties.

No, this is not CONTRACT LAW: This is a Lanlord and Tenant law. As I said before, THERE IS NO CONTRACT-- IT EXPIRED A YEAR BEFORE my friend died!! Furthermore "Contract Laws" do not apply to Landlord/Tenant relationships because that is addressed separately! Contract laws are applicable to real estate and commercial purchases, and to other business matters.

 

[Banned_Princess]

No, this is not CONTRACT LAW: This is a Lanlord and Tenant law. As I said before, THERE IS NO CONTRACT-- IT EXPIRED A YEAR BEFORE my friend died!! Furthermore "Contract Laws" do not apply to Landlord/Tenant relationships because that is addressed separately! Contract laws are applicable to real estate and commercial purchases, and to other business matters.

HEY!!!! SETTLE DOWN THERE SPORT.

There is a contract. a month to month contract. just because he is dead, does not nullify the landlord tenant contract. until the place is turned over to the landlord, the dead guy owes rent. and utilities.

and you obviously know nothing about contracts. OF COURSE THEY APPLY TO LL TENANT SITUATIONS, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LEASE IS? WHAT IS THE AGREEMENT TO RENT FROM /TO IS CALLED?????????? A CONTRACT.

I suggest you find a lawyer, because you are not "getting" the truth we are telling you.


ps, why dont you consider rental contracts the same as real estate contracts? (hint, they are the same)

 

[justalayman]

No, this is not CONTRACT LAW: This is a Lanlord and Tenant law. As I said before, THERE IS NO CONTRACT-- IT EXPIRED A YEAR BEFORE my friend died!! Furthermore "Contract Laws" do not apply to Landlord/Tenant relationships because that is addressed separately! Contract laws are applicable to real estate and commercial purchases, and to other business matters.

you do realize a lease is a contract, right? You must also understand what a verbal contract is, right?

if the lease expired a year before, why was dad still there? Maybe because it converted to a verbal month to month tenancy and renewed every month.

I don't know what your problem is skippy. It's obvious you are just never going to understand this so why don't you just shut down your computer and walk away.

 

[FarmerJ]

Rey seriously if a nat gas , or elect acct has zero use they still have basic monthly fees for the privledge of having the ability to hit a switch and wahhhhhhhlah lights come on , other wise to have zero owed for gas / elect util they have to be turned off at meter by the util. NOW since you dispute the amount the estate owes what have you been able to learn from the housing assistance prog the deceased was on? and has it occured to you that a possible failure of the deceased well before he died to say submit proofs or docs requested could have ended his HAP wich in no way shape or form changes a tenants obligation to meet the full rent owed , assistance or not ? SO if you can get the HAP to give you proofs that the HAP payments were made until X date then _________ other wise till you do learn other wise its possible that there is zero mistake and the estate owes it with no more discussion.

 

[reyn562]

HEY!!!! SETTLE DOWN THERE SPORT.

There is a contract. a month to month contract. just because he is dead, does not nullify the landlord tenant contract. until the place is turned over to the landlord, the dead guy owes rent. and utilities.

and you obviously know nothing about contracts. OF COURSE THEY APPLY TO LL TENANT SITUATIONS, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LEASE IS? WHAT IS THE AGREEMENT TO RENT FROM /TO IS CALLED?????????? A CONTRACT.

I suggest you find a lawyer, because you are not "getting" the truth we are telling you.


ps, why dont you consider rental contracts the same as real estate contracts? (hint, they are the same)

Because South Carolina law clearly distiguishes contracts and other laws concerning real estate separate from the Landlord and Tenant laws (Title 27, Chapter 35, 37, 39, and 40). And it's common knowledge that oral agreements are generally unenforceable, even if they originated from an expired written contract, especially if it has expired for at least one year beforehand.

The contract-- I'm not referring to general real estate vs. other contracts, I'm referring the Landlord/Tenant act; landlord and tenant issues are discussed in a separate chapter and title because that law, Chapter 40, deals specifically with landlord/tenant issues. Chapter 40 of the South Carolina Code of Laws regulates what can and can't be put on the contract; that's why it's a separate issue.