Detained and Handcuffed at Gunpoint by Mistake

[CdwJava]

Whether you wish to call it an arrest or not depends upon the context. For Miranda purposes, absolutely. For the purposes of a criminal history, no.

Call it what you will, but there is still a very strong possibility (unless everyone involved are complete morons) that the actions taken were lawful and reasonable. It is not uncommon in such situations for people to be detained for an hour or more when trying to sort out events at the scene and then trying to get a witness willing and able to be transported to the scene to make an identification. There are a host of factors that come into play in such situations.

By all means, the OP should sit down and speak to someone in charge at the agency. If something was done wrong, they would probably like to know about it. But, if things were done by the book, then maybe this can be explained to the OP. Whether the OP will concur that the acts were reasonable or not is another question. Sometimes even lawful police actions will not be viewed as "right" by the parties subject to the action.

 

[slwslw]

What was the threat that the Lt. made??

I once got stopped for speeding in San Ysidro by CHP. Because I was white, drove a white car, and had a stainless steel 9mm in my waistband (I had a permit),
and the CHP Ofcr. knew a homicide had just occured in San Diego, with a white male driving a white car w/ a stainless steel 9mm, he cuffed me, took me to a CHP office and had 2 San Diego homicide detectives come out.

They took my photo and sent it to the crime scene for witnesses to view it, they took photos of the bottoms of my shoes and of a 2nd pair in my trunk. They tore my car to pieces.

I was there for over 2 hrs.. before they said it wasn't me.

I never considered suing them, I tried my best to accomodate them. They don't stop people just for the hell of it.

They're trying to solve crimes. By solving crimes, they prevent further crimes. Isn't that what you want the police to do?

You're not willing to put any effort into helping the cops protect your own community?

 

[Proseguru]

You're not willing to put any effort into helping the cops protect your own community?

Cops have no obligation to help you; why do you feel the obligation you do? Cops don't protect , they respond.

You are free to smile at them when they tear your car apart if you wish; others are free to frown.

And if you are free before you speak to the cops, how is talking to them going to improve your own situation? It's not.

 

[tranquility]

Whether you wish to call it an arrest or not depends upon the context. For Miranda purposes, absolutely. For the purposes of a criminal history, no.

Since we're talking about the 4th amendment and civil rights, why don't we use that context. (5th amendment [Miranda] too.) I don't agree with the "absolutely" as we can weave our way through the jurisprudence and not find a per se "arrest", so there could certainly be a set of facts which could say the intrusion was not so great as to turn it into an arrest.

It is not uncommon in such situations for people to be detained for an hour or more when trying to sort out events at the scene and then trying to get a witness willing and able to be transported to the scene to make an identification. There are a host of factors that come into play in such situations.

I think I addressed this previously. But, those people were probably not detained but arrested and released. The difference are the imprecise factors of Probable Cause and Reasonable Suspicion. The Supreme Court allows a detention with reasonable suspicion through Terry. Read the cases and not the summaries. Detentions are limited in scope. It has expanded into a "reasonable investigation".

If the police have the victim give a great description which fits the OP's car and occupants, the car is close to the crime in time and location and, when stopped, the smell of a recently fired weapon fills the car, I'm thinking we're in probable cause territory and the courts won't really care if the police held him there for a show-up--even if it takes an hour.

But, a vague description by a unidentified passerby over the color of a car and the color of the occupants and the OP's car happened to be within the police search area?

It would certainly be possible we would have reasonable suspicion for a stop. But if the officer doesn't smell anything or have any other indication which would give more facts to increase RS so the investigation can reasonably be continued. But, that would not be enough for Probable Cause to arrest under our 4th amendment context. If the police did this show-up of cuffed people in the back of police cars after an hour, they would have to (as I said) do a lot of dancing to make it OK.

That's why *I* wanted more information. While "Cops are good, m'kay." could be a good default position in general, it shouldn't be the default when there are legitimate questions they have to answer to see if they acted properly. If they won't answer it informally, what options would the OP and his family have if they want answers?

 

[slwslw]

Cops have no obligation to help you; why do you feel the obligation you do? Cops don't protect , they respond.

You are free to smile at them when they tear your car apart if you wish; others are free to frown.

And if you are free before you speak to the cops, how is talking to them going to improve your own situation? It's not.

I'm really sad that you feel that way about the cops and your community. Good luck with it.