Detaining a Minor

[Zigner]

Quiet honestly, I'm surprised he didn't catch a false imprisonment felony rap. Might have been a little bit of 'discretion' given the kid owned up to his antics. I could see it going the other way.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=29&sctn=3&subsctn=0

That was my thought too - along with kidnapping

 

[quincy]

Yes ... but the police obviously saw the incident differently.

The police had the advantage of talking to the child and the child's parent and probably a hotel worker or two before charges were filed.

 

[Zigner]

Yes ... but the police obviously saw the incident differently.

The police had the advantage of talking to the child and the child's parent and probably a hotel worker or two before charges were filed.

Yes, there's no question that the charges were filed that appeared to be most sustainable. It doesn't mean that the OP didn't also commit other crimes, it just means that proving them would have been next-to-impossible.

 

[quincy]

Okay. If you want to explore all crimes that could have been committed given no facts to support them, let's also list attempted murder.

Seriously, the fellow was charged with two relatively minor crimes. Had he acted like most people probably would have acted under similarly described circumstances, he would not have been charged with anything because he would have stayed in his hotel room and called the front desk.

 

[Zigner]

Okay. If you want to explore all crimes that could have been committed given no facts to support them, let's also list attempted murder.

The facts, as stated by the OP, may in fact support kidnapping and false imprisonment. The facts, as stated, do not support attempted murder.

Seriously, grabbing a kid so that he can't leave the area is pretty much the definition of false imprisonment and dragging him somewhere against his will is pretty much the definition of kidnapping. That the OP was not charged with those crimes is simply serendipitous for him.

 

[quincy]

If you say so.

 

[Zigner]

I'll retract my contention that the OP's action constituted kidnapping, but they did meet the definition of False Imprisonment of a minor (a felony):

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.029..HTM

§ 2903. False imprisonment.

(a) Offense defined.--Except as provided under subsection (b) or (c), a person commits a misdemeanor of the second degree if he knowingly restrains another unlawfully so as to interfere substantially with his liberty.
(b) False imprisonment of a minor where offender is not victim's parent.--If the victim is a person under 18 years of age, a person who is not the victim's parent commits a felony of the second degree if he knowingly restrains another unlawfully so as to interfere substantially with his liberty.

 

[quincy]

You must refer to the Preamble of the Pennsylvania Constitution to understand what "restraint" of liberty means in the context of this law.

There was no kidnapping or false imprisonment, based on what we were told.

 

[Zigner]

You mean this one? I'm not sure how it applies...

PREAMBLE
WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=0

In any case, we're not talking about unlawful restraint...we're talking about false imprisonment. It seems to me that the word "restrain" isn't defined in PA code. Maybe I missed it...?

 

[quincy]

You mean this one? I'm not sure how it applies...

PREAMBLE
WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=0

In any case, we're not talking about unlawful restraint...we're talking about false imprisonment. It seems to me that the word "restrain" isn't defined in PA code. Maybe I missed it...?

Unlawful restraint is not holding onto someone while you escort them to an authority. There was no substantial interference with the child's liberty.

Here is Pennsylvania's definition of unlawful restraint, which is on its own a crime:
https://law.justia.com/codes/pennsylvania/2017/title-18/chapter-29/section-2902/

It exposes a person to bodily harm or it's involuntary servitude.

I understand you think our poster committed a heinous crime but he was not charged with one, nor did the facts as he presented them support a more serious charge.

 

[Zigner]

Unlawful restraint is not holding onto someone while you escort them to an authority.

Here is Pennsylvania's definition of unlawful restraint, which is on its own a crime:
https://law.justia.com/codes/pennsylvania/2017/title-18/chapter-28/section-2902/

It exposes a person to bodily harm or its involuntary servitude.

I understand you think our poster committed a heinous crime but he was not charged with one, nor did the facts as he presented them support a more serious charge.

Unlawful Restraint is a separate offense from False Imprisonment. While I agree that the facts here don't show Unlawful Restraint, they certainly do support False Imprisonment. I quoted the state law above and posted the link.

 

[quincy]

I think you are incorrect in believing that what has been described could be false imprisonment. There was NO substantial interference with the child's liberty.

But it really doesn't matter what crimes you want to imagine. The police assessed the facts firsthand and the charges were disorderly conduct and harassment.

 

[Zigner]

I think you are incorrect in believing that what has been described could be false imprisonment. There was NO substantial interference with the child's liberty.

I disagree, but I suppose that would be a matter for a court to decide, had it gone that far.

But it really doesn't matter what crimes you want to imagine. The police assessed the facts firsthand and the charges were disorderly conduct and harassment.

I will agree with that that the crime that he wasn't charged with (whether or not he committed it) doesn't matter.

 

[quincy]

Okay. Let's assume the police knew what they were doing when they charged as they did.

This detour was probably an unnecessary one.

 

[Zigner]

Okay. Let's assume the police knew what they were doing when they charged as they did.

This detour was probably an unnecessary one.

But enjoyable nonetheless