Did't want to hijack the CS forum "Passport" thread.

[ProSeDadinMD]

This is a bit of a hijack of OP's thread...but I think that you are skating on thin ice a bit on that one dad.

Right now she is the one with credibility issues with the court.

If she does not have significant ties to another country where its possible that she might try to move the child there, it may seriously annoy the judge to have to order you to cooperate with getting the passport.

Why, exactly, am I "skating on thin ice"?

This is 100% a trust issue with me. The Ex has familial ties to the Dominican Republic, tries hard not to follow the order(even after I QUOTE IT TO HER VERBATIM), and I've offered a reasonable solution.

I see my request to hold the passport given here on FA as a reasonable alternative almost every time the subject is brought up on FA.

So again, to repeat myself from the other thread, "Please to 'splain"...

 

[LdiJ]

Why, exactly, am I "skating on thin ice"?

This is 100% a trust issue with me. The Ex has familial ties to the Dominican Republic, tries hard not to follow the order(even after I QUOTE IT TO HER VERBATIM), and I've offered a reasonable solution.

I see my request to hold the passport given here on FA as a reasonable alternative almost every time the subject is brought up on FA.

So again, to repeat myself from the other thread, "Please to 'splain"...

Are they serious ties to the Dominican Republic? IE is there a reasonable shot that she would want to live there? If so, then you probably aren't skating on thin ice.

My concern was that she has always proven herself to be the "bad guy" in court, and if there was absolutely no reason to believe that she would ever attempt to move the child to a foreign country, then having to order you to cooperate with a passport might annoy the judge. That is one of those issues that can seem petty and controlling. If the judge gets annoyed with you, then the next time you have an issue with mom, the judge might view both of you as the problem, instead of just mom.

However, if you really believe that mom might get it in her head to move out of the country...thinking about it rationally...then you may not have a problem.

I married and later divorced a man from Italy. When we split up I did have some panicky moments of fear that he might try to take our child out of the country permanently. I got over that rapidly, because rationally there was no way that he wanted to move back to Italy. He had too much going for him, at the time, here in the US.

You occasionally have some minor lapses in judgement that cause you to do things that are probably not a good idea. I don't want you to lose your position as the "good guy" in court, so I like to warn you when you may be approaching on of those potential lapses.

 

[profmum]

OT, but I'm pretty sure The Ex is a "hair's breadth" away from filing to "compel" me to agree to a passport(so that she, L'il Sis, and LMPS can go on a cruise over spring break, although last year it was so they could take a vacation with The Ex's now ex). I've made the offer of agreeing IF I can hold it when not in use(Women.....well, this woman..... can't be trusted to do the right thing, considering they/SHE can't seem to read the actual order before stating what it says), and that we'd need to add it to the order. For some reason she hasn't answered that yet

PSD based on your response from the CS thread above, I am convinced that you are the one with serious control issues NOT your ex. If your ex has not demonstrated any reason to be considered a flight risk and having "famililial ties" elsewhere DOES not constitute a flight risk, has never taken the child out of the country without the appropriate legal permission and worse still not returned the child after doing so, she will most likely be granted her motion to compell and you will be paying her attny fees if that motion is granted.
Your insistence on "holding the passport" as a bargaining chip to sign the application form speaks directly to the level of control you want. What makes you the better parent to hold the passport? My ex tried the same thing, the judge gave him 24 hours to return DDs passport to me with a quote " or else".
I now keep DDs passport as my immediate family is overseas and the ex travels every other week when DD is with me that if I had an emergency it would be impossible to get the passport from him.

If the two of you cant agree as to who keeps it, have her attny keep it in a safe box.

Really why do insist on stirring up the pot? Your ex wanted a passport for the child so they take a cruise..she is going to have a great time with her Mum and sister.. dont take away from that??

you may want to do the same someday..I hope this gets in a front of a judge and you get the tongue lashing that my ex did!

 

[profmum]

You occasionally have some minor lapses in judgement that cause you to do things that are probably not a good idea. I don't want you to lose your position as the "good guy" in court, so I like to warn you when you may be approaching on of those potential lapses.

wells said LD.. PSD, if you continue down this path, you will come across as the unreasonable parent and then nothing will go your way. You clearly love your child, are a great father and your child has a very close relationship with you, so why not let go of the things that could possibly take away from that?
She is thriving correct? then you AND Mum are doing something right? Leave it at ..

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

Are they serious ties to the Dominican Republic? IE is there a reasonable shot that she would want to live there? If so, then you probably aren't skating on thin ice.

My concern was that she has always proven herself to be the "bad guy" in court, and if there was absolutely no reason to believe that she would ever attempt to move the child to a foreign country, then having to order you to cooperate with a passport might annoy the judge. That is one of those issues that can seem petty and controlling. If the judge gets annoyed with you, then the next time you have an issue with mom, the judge might view both of you as the problem, instead of just mom.

However, if you really believe that mom might get it in her head to move out of the country...thinking about it rationally...then you may not have a problem.

I married and later divorced a man from Italy. When we split up I did have some panicky moments of fear that he might try to take our child out of the country permanently. I got over that rapidly, because rationally there was no way that he wanted to move back to Italy. He had too much going for him, at the time, here in the US.

You occasionally have some minor lapses in judgement that cause you to do things that are probably not a good idea. I don't want you to lose your position as the "good guy" in court, so I like to warn you when you may be approaching on of those potential lapses.

I do appreciate the warning. Like I said, I made a reasonable offer as to how this can be handled.

My ex tried the same thing, the judge gave me 24 hours to return DDs passport to him with a quote " or else"....

I now keep DDs passport as my immediate family is overseas and the ex travels every other week when DD is with me that if I had an emergency it would be impossible to get the passport from him.

If the two of you cant agree as to who keeps it, have her attny keep it in a safe box.

I'll bite on these 3 lines.

First, you state that your ex "tried the same thing" and that YOU were ordered to hand the passpor over to him. Sounds like Dad was reasonable with the request to hold the passport to me

I don't travel for my job, and other than vacations(where LMPS is with me), I am rarely more than 3 hours from home. She could get it in an emergency.

And finally, since The Ex has had a different attorney EVERY time we've had legal "issues", which one should I leave it with? Certainly not the last one, who blatantly lied in court.

wells said LD.. PSD, if you continue down this path, you will come across as the unreasonable parent and then nothing will go your way. You clearly love your child, are a great father and your child has a very close relationship with you, so why not let go of the things that could possibly take away from that?
She is thriving correct? then you AND Mum are doing something right? Leave it at ..

I never said that she wasn't "thriving". However, I've had to work my butt off to make sure that I am kept "in the loop" so to speak.

But thanks for the "You clearly love your child, are a great father and your child has a very close relationship with you".

 

[truebluemd]

I agree there is a little control issue here with PSD. It may have to do with mom taking daughter out of the country without his knowledge, and of course, the worry of her bringing dd back. Whether or not you hold the passport, you will have to hand it over to mom when she takes daughter out of the country, and thats no reassurance that mom will come back, and there would be nothing you could do to ensure she is back at the required date/time, you just have to trust (I know, ) she does what she is supposed to do, as stated in the CO'd parenting plan.

My worries are the same as you IF my ex could get a passport for himself. Ive only remember two court discussion regarding this, and in each case, the cp was ordered to hold the passport.

You are going to have to prove mom a flight risk to object to any passport issues, including holding the passport.

 

[stealth2]

My ex (NCP) held onto the kids' passports, too. It was actually quite amusing, to be honest. I won't go into the details. Suffice it to say that they're now in my possession, because he was a control freak over them.

Now, my ex is also not US born (although is a naturalized citizen now). And yes, it was a concern several times that he'd take the kids "away". But, at the end of the day, one has to weigh the real likelihood of that possibility vs the benefits of a trip abroad with the other parent.

 

[profmum]

I do appreciate the warning. Like I said, I made a reasonable offer as to how this can be handled.

I'll bite on these 3 lines.

First, you state that your ex "tried the same thing" and that YOU were ordered to hand the passpor over to him. Sounds like Dad was reasonable with the request to hold the passport to me

Sorry, my bad, it was a typo!.. it should say "he was ordered to return the passport to me within 24 hrs", i willl edit in the original post!

 

[truebluemd]

My ex (NCP) held onto the kids' passports, too. It was actually quite amusing, to be honest. I won't go into the details. Suffice it to say that they're now in my possession, because he was a control freak over them.

Now, my ex is also not US born (although is a naturalized citizen now). And yes, it was a concern several times that he'd take the kids "away". But, at the end of the day, one has to weigh the real likelihood of that possibility vs the benefits of a trip abroad with the other parent.

I think no matter who holds the passport, the worry sets in when they are actually away, because the other parent is concerened about the parent actually returning with the child. So really it doesnt matter who holds the passport, because unless their are restrictions in the CO, their is no way the parent holding the passport can restrict the other parent from using it and taking a vacation (If im wrong, please let me know).

 

[profmum]

I do appreciate the warning. Like I said, I made a reasonable offer as to how this can be handled.

I'll bite on these 3 lines.

First, you state that your ex "tried the same thing" and that YOU were ordered to hand the passpor over to him. Sounds like Dad was reasonable with the request to hold the passport to me

see my edit.. sorry about that confusion!

I don't travel for my job, and other than vacations(where LMPS is with me), I am rarely more than 3 hours from home. She could get it in an emergency.

so why you and not her, does she travel a lot? what makes you the better parent to keep the passport, how about you split it, she keeps it 6 months, you keep the next 6 months for example?

And finally, since The Ex has had a different attorney EVERY time we've had legal "issues", which one should I leave it with? Certainly not the last one, who blatantly lied in court.

then you suggest another officer of the court that can keep the passport, or a safe deposit box where you both have access and the passport will only be removed for travelf or which the parent has notification for.

I never said that she wasn't "thriving". However, I've had to work my butt off to make sure that I am kept "in the loop" so to speak.

how is Mum asking you to sign an application form for a passport, NOT keeoping you in the loop? Has Mum been in contempt for not keeping you in the loop? if not, well who said coparenting was supposed to be easy and being the bigger parent is NOT easy at all!

But thanks for the "You clearly love your child, are a great father and your child has a very close relationship with you".

keep your eye on that prize!

 

[LdiJ]

I do appreciate the warning. Like I said, I made a reasonable offer as to how this can be handled.

You think its a reasonable offer, but the judge may not agree.

Also, what good is holding the passport really going to do for you? Are you planning on never allowing your child to travel to the Dominican Republic to visit her family?

Like True said, you are going to have to turn the passport over when mom wants to travel with the child, so you really are going to have to learn to trust mom, at least in that area.

In my opinion, unless you rationally believe that mom is about to skip the country with the child, you really should just cooperate with getting the passport and not let it go to court. There really is a chance that you could end up paying mom's legal fees over this one.

Plus, the more that you dither on it, the less time mom will have to get the passport, and then you may also get accused of deliberately sabotaging mom's vacation with the child.

 

[profmum]

But, at the end of the day, one has to weigh the real likelihood of that possibility vs the benefits of a trip abroad with the other parent.

I agree and for those of us parents who have immediate family abroad, it is the only way often to have the child maintain a relationship with the other part of their heritage. The judge in our case told my ex when he refused to sign the application form for DDs tourist visa for my native country and I quote " this court firmly believes in the relationship between a child and the grandparents. I am grandfather myself, if the child's gparents are within the US, not a problem, but if they are outside the US, the child will be allowed to travel to see them, so Major Xfiles I urge you to sign the visa application form or else"!

When xfiles claimed I was a flight risk last year before my annual trip to Asia (for which I had the court's permission), the same judge said,.."given profmum's roots in this community, she has been in the US for 18 years and has taken the child every year since her birth to Asia and brought her back and appears to be fully committed to having Major Xfiles as an prominent part of DDs life, profmum is not considered a flight risk, the request for a $50,000 bond is denied and she and the child will be allowed to go to Asia.."

 

[Ohiogal]

One thing about him holding the passport -- while mom would still be able to travel to the DR, dad would have to be told that the travel was taken place. She couldnt' just TAKE OFF with the child without telling dad.

 

[Ohiogal]

I agree and for those of us parents who have immediate family abroad, it is the only way often to have the child maintain a relationship with the other part of their heritage. The judge in our case told my ex when he refused to sign the application form for DDs tourist visa for my native country and I quote " this court firmly believes in the relationship between a child and the grandparents. I am grandfather myself, if the child's gparents are within the US, not a problem, but if they are outside the US, the child will be allowed to travel to see them, so Major Xfiles I urge you to sign the visa application form or else"!

When xfiles claimed I was a flight risk last year before my annual trip to Asia (for which I had the court's permission), the same judge said,.."given profmum's roots in this community, she has been in the US for 18 years and has taken the child every year since her birth to Asia and brought her back and appears to be fully committed to having Major Xfiles as an prominent part of DDs life, profmum is not considered a flight risk, the request for a $50,000 bond is denied and she and the child will be allowed to go to Asia.."

Your judge could get reprimanded for his personal comments. Those are NOT based on law.

 

[cmtx2]

I've been trying to get a passport for over a year now. Before all this litigation took place, I had wanted to take our daughter on a Disney Cruise. I won't get to now, because of other expenses, but i'd still like to for the future.

Ex use to agree that it would be fine, but never went with me or signed the paperwork. Now, I doubt he would approve it. I want to apply still, based on the affidavit you can submit on special circumstances, but I think I will wait since we're in litigation right now.

There's always next summer for the cruise. Heck, I can't even take her out of state right now.