Disputing fraudulent contract through Visa

[meldresler]

What is the name of your state? I'm in VA; I'm writing on behalf of parents in UT.

I wrote in on this a couple of months ago; this is a question based on some updates. So over the summer my parents signed up for a "timeshare" package in Mexico and made a large down payment with Visa. They were told verbally they could "cancel any time". They quickly realized something was amiss and tried to cancel by phone (legally insufficient, I know), were told to "wait" and decide later whether or not to cancel. The next time they tried to cancel they were told they were locked in for 30 years.

When they finally told me about this, I called Visa and started a dispute [within the 60 day time period]. The internet is full of hundreds and hundreds of people who have been defrauded by this company (Royal Holiday). We provided the Visa company with a very organized package - a lot of information, well put together. In parallel, we wrote to Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency, which has a reputation of returning money to Americans for Royal Holiday (no response yet).

We just heard back from Visa in a sort of form letter. They have denied the claim because Royal Holiday provided proof that my parents signed the contract. (We had sent Visa the same info - we never disputed that!). But then they refunded an additional monthly payment to Royal Holiday which had a separate case number because "the(ir) bank honored this (return of funds)". Does this mean that Visa just wants to know if they can get their money back, and that is the basis for winning a dispute?

The same Visa company (same bank) has refunded the money of others frauded by Royal Holiday. What is the next step? Is there an appeals process? What is the law with respect to credit card disputes and how different is each company in setting policy?

[Any other advice in dealing with Royal Holiday would be greatly appreciated as well].

 

[divgradcurl]

The same Visa company (same bank) has refunded the money of others frauded by Royal Holiday. What is the next step? Is there an appeals process? What is the law with respect to credit card disputes and how different is each company in setting policy?

How do you know that Visa has refunded others? If they have, how do you know that the situations were exactly the same as your parents?

It sounds like your parents signed a contract that they themselves thought was fishy, and then didn't follow up by cancelling the contract in such a way that would actually cancel the contract. It's hard to see why the credit card company should be the responsible party in this case. What have you parents done to try and get out of the contract with Royal Holiday other than trying to get the charges reversed?

Maybe you should just wait and see what Profeco has to say? I'm not trying to be mean here, and I'm certain not a champion for the credit card industry,, but I guess I don't see where the problem is.

 

[meldresler]

Thank you for the reply. I have joined a yahoo group called "Royal Holiday Scam" with 360+ members. Anyhow, someone else received a refund through the same Visa (Wells Fargo) based on comparable circumstances. Most people in the loop who realize in time (60 or 90 days) that they have been frauded have been successful with their credit card companies (Visa, American Express ...). Most took longer and then tried to get reimbursement for later charges and were successful. I would have to say that, anecdotally, the members of the loop have had excellent success in working with credit card companies. Since I am not advocating for the credit card company here, I think that they should protect my parents (senior citizens) in the face of fraud.

My parents did not feel they were signing a contract that was fishy. It was only when they returned home and started to try to use the program that they discovered that everything they had been told was untrue. Even when they initially called to cancel (not having read the contract) they were told they should wait and decide later after trying out a cruise. The next time they called they were told they were locked in for 30 years.

In any case, again based on the experience of the yahoo loop, even those who tried to cancel in writing within the 5 day time period didn't get their money back from Royal Holiday without Profeco's later intervention. I have been working with the contract for a few months now and there is absolutely no address to which to write - the contract begins with the narrative of an address that when written out is not an address. The website only allows you to input information into a form. [We did obtain an address through other means, but it appears to be part of the whole scam that they make it impossible to actually cancel through the legal channels].

I've been to plenty of timeshare presentations in the US - sure the sales pitch is manipulative and heavy handed, but I don't think the salespeople are just making things up off the top of their heads to get me to sign - as was the case here.

 

[adviceplznov06]

trying to dispute a charge on visa

I also got the shaft from visa when I tried to get my down payment to a dentist refunded, due to the fact that they didn't do the work. They absolutely tortured me for an entire day, 9:30am to 7pm, didn't finish anything, and presented a revised contract for the work I was having done at about 4pm which included several obscenely expensive crowns that were no where near the hmo contract amount. When I questioned the charges, the explanation was just silly, and knowing those particular teeth wouldn't be done that day, I figured I would deal with it the following day with the office manager. At the end of my torture session, I again questioned this contract, went ahead and signed and paid the down payment, as the office manager would be in the following day, and I was in no shape to think about anything by then.
The following days and weeks, I was put off over and over, the person I needed to talk with wasn't in- then I needed to talk with someone else who didn't show for my appt., didn't return my calls, etc. The only explanation I was given was that they claimed I had requested cosmetic crowns not covered by my plan. This would have been laughable if I hadn't been so ill.
I didn't have any more work done- and filed my complaint with visa. They investigated- and said I had no claim since I signed a contract. Apparently the dentist doesn't have to abide by the contract, only me.
I complained to the dental board, who didn't bother to respond. Now I am trying small claims court.
I ended up losing the teeth within a couple of months that the crowns were never placed on.

 

[meldresler]

Wow, that is a shame that Visa didn't help you out in that case. I would think that the fact that the work was never performed would be a strong reason to refund the money (stronger than my parents who just can't use the service). I would think that a letter from a lawyer - probably to the dentist - might fairly easily help. (What do I know?). I just asked my mother to get the user agreement from her Visa and it has really no helpful information - there must be some place to find basic protections given by Visa, but I'm still wading, trying to figure it all out. Good luck to you!