Doesn't want to pay CS, now wants Custody

[d033326]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

I incorrectly posted this on the support board, so it may look familiar to some.

My child's father and I recently had a modification of a 10 year old support order which has changed the amount I receive for support of our child substantially. He has complained about the fact that he can't afford the current order, and has asked me to take the courts out of the picture, which I've refused. I explained that before I asked for a modification, I requested that we split camp cost, and was told he was unable to help. camp cost 180 and transportation was 30 dollars for the entire summer. I'd never asked for anything over the amount he actually paid within the 10 years, so I requested a modification, and because of this, the amount I was receiving is 1/5th of what he is currently expected to pay.

In March, he asked that I lower the amount he's expected to pay, I explained that I've shouldered the burden of financial support(he paid a little over 100 per month) for ten years, I requested the state guideline amount and feel that it's fair. So, now he has threatened to take me back to court to try to get primary custody of our child. The support amount has been changed again this month because my income was mis calculated, so he asked again, and I repeated what I told him in March. In March, he also left a message on my voicemail threatening to take me back to court for custody as well, I do have that saved, and would like to know if needed should I present it?

He requested partial custody 10 years ago, and was given every other weekend and two days out of the week where he would get our child between 6 and 9pm. In the ten year time span, he's kept him consistently every other weekend. Getting him the two days during the week ended a few months after he was awarded partial custody.

He did keep him for me in 2004 when I had a job where I worked 2nd shift between 6:45 and 9pm, from Sept to June(the school semester). From June to Sept, I sent him to camp and paid a friend to keep him till I got off work. He resumed watching him in Sept 2005 only on Mon and Wed because he stated he couldn't watch him Mon thru Fri any more. I left that job in Jan, 2006 to work from home and homeschool our child, because he had social and accademic problems in public school.

We've disagreed about him being homeschooled (he attends a virtual charter school and I am his primary teacher), because his father believes he should be in school with other children. though I've handled all homework and school work since 2006. Until a few months ago, our child couldn't even take his school work to his father's house. His father would say let him stay home to complete it.

Up until this summer, our son refused to interact with other children in our neighborhood because he'd been teased and treated pretty meanly by those in my neighborhood and at school. The current school has an enrichment program he attends, where the children are a little more better behaved, so he's shown an interest in being around other children again. I'm interested in putting him in some extra curricular activities, but hadn't had the money to do so until recently. Eventually the goal is to get him back into school, but I believe it best when he's ready, and hopefully when his he's progressed enough to be accepted at one of the better schools in the area, and is more comfortable on a social level.

I'm sorry it's so long, but I just wanted to give a little back ground .


The issue about custody did not come up until the amount of the support changed.

This is not about him wanting our child to live with him, but more about him not wanting to part with the money he now has to pay. Is this something I should mention in court, that it's really about the support, or should I just let the judge figure it out. I do not have any problem with our son spending more time with his father, in fact I believe he needs to be around him much more, but I do have a problem with our child being used as a pawn to lower or stop child support payments.

Any advice would be appreciated thanks!

 

[nextwife]

Do you have Jt. Legal custody? Did you just unilaterally decide to homeschool without Dad's ok? Did the court agree that it was OK to remove the child from school?

The kids in your neighborhood harass him? Have you put him in counseling? Have you looked onto him attending a different school in your area?

 

[d033326]

Do you have Jt. Legal custody? Did you just unilaterally decide to homeschool without Dad's ok? Did the court agree that it was OK to remove the child from school?

The kids in your neighborhood harass him? Have you put him in counseling? Have you looked onto him attending a different school in your area?

Yes, I have legal custody. He has partial custody the order states gets him two days out of the week and every other weekend, which is partially being followed.

He's been homeschooled since 2006, and his father has known. His father is not involved with his schooling, and hasn't been, outside of when he watched him in 2004 and 2005, and at that time, when he helped with homework, he would lose his temper and the work would still come back to me.

The issues were discussed with is father, I do not make decisions without discussing and if possible involving him, though whatever is done, I pay for and have the sole responsibility for carrying them out. His father wants him back in school and in tutoring, but isand was never willing to pay for the tutoring or transportation back and forth. I tutor him and have help from other teachers in his school.

Up until this year I was unable with my income to do anything other than what I've done, and wasn't offered anything but opposition from his father. If he paid for Sylvan which is what he keeps mentioning, our son would already be there with no problem, but this is not the case. He is not in agreement with him being homeschooled, but hasn't offered to help with any alternative, so I did what I felt was best and what could be done within my means.

Also, during the 2005/2006 school year, he was in public school in 4th grade, but when he tested into the school he's currently in, he tested in on an end of first grade/beginning of second grade level, but in the previous school, his grades were good. He deserves better, and I've given that to him.

The current school kept him in the grade, but gave him reading and math work for 2nd grade, and he was brought up to forth grade reading and math within the first year, we left him back in the second year, (should have been done in the first, and now he's going to 6th grade but reading and math on a 5th grade level. I could not get that in any school in the area, or with tutoring, unless it were a private school, the money is not there to pay for that. The tests prove he's getting to where he needs to be and not pushed on to the next grade, as he was in the neighborhood school.

No, I haven't put him in counseling, I just removed him from where he was being harrassed. With a virtual charter school, the school is state run, the child just takes classes at home. No, I haven't looked for a school in the area, many of them are in the same boat the one he left was in. I'd like to get him out of the area, but we are trying to bring him out of remedial classes for reading and math and into regular classes without needing remedial help, then apply for schools we choose, rather than to be sent wherever the city feels he should go, based upon low scores and address.

I've considered putting him into extra curricular activities, but with no money to pay for them, it's very difficult. There's a Pal center across the street from us, but he refuses to go there. Now that I have help in the way of support, I can afford to look into activities he will enjoy, and around children he's confortable with. He's currently going to an enrichment program hosted by the school and LOVES it! There's not much like that program in our area. Many have little to no supervision and I'm looking for something with structure and adults who are in contact with parents if there's a problem.

Here's something else I've forgotten to mention. When I worked second shift and his father watched him during the week, I asked him to please put him into an extra curricular activity, I even offered to pay for it, because at the time I had the money, he refused stating he didnt have time. I finally put him in Karate and basketball, his father refused to go to the programs, has never met any of the instructors and never went to the centers to see our son in his activities. At first, he didn't want him going to the programs on his weekends, until his girlfriend at the time stepped in, then our son was allowed to go as long as I took him and brought him to his house after the programs. These are programs I paid for, took him to, saw his progress and interacted with the instructors. He had to leave the programs in 2006, due to my decline in income.

As for telling the court, we haven't been to court for custody in ten years, I didn't know I had to, nor have I told them that he is in contempt of his order, because it really doesn't matter(involving the court), outside of the fact that he's trying to get legal and physical custody though he isn't doing what HE requested the court allow ten years ago.

yes he picks him up every other weekend, but not on the two days he's supposed to get him during the week. When our son has a problem, we discuss it , and if I feel I'm not as effective in handling the issues, I ask him to step in from a man's point of view, but I shoulder 85 percent of the responsibility, up until March, financially and still physically. He believes since he doesn't live with him, he's only responsible every other weekend and over the phone, when he has time. In his words,"as a single parent, you are responsible for his care, and if he were to live with me, I wouldn't expect anything from you.'

His comments when he stated he was going to ask for custody were " I told you if you ever felt you couldn't deal with him, send him my way, so maybe he's better off with me." My response "he has two parents, and both should be financially responsible evenly, and for the last ten years, you have only paid 120 per month, so I requested help(via the court) to make sure he's being taken care of at least financially by both of us, instead of only myself." I also said," you have never mentioned having him live with you until after the support was modified, you're looking to alleviate the money you have to pay by trying to get primary custody." He started with the curse words about how they're going to have to take him out in handcuffs for not paying support because he can't afford it, and slammed the phone down.

 

[LdiJ]

The reality of things is that dad would need a change in circumstance to accomplish a change in custody. At this time, there is absolutely no change in circumstance. The change to homeschooling might have been a change in circumstance back in 2006, but its too late for him to make any claims about that now, particularly since your son is doing well with it.

Its quite "classic" for a parent that has been hit up with a child support increase, particularly a high child support increase, to threaten to file for custody, or to even follow through with filing. However, judges catch on to that quite quickly...particularly if the parent isn't currently exercising all of the parenting time they are allowed in the court orders.

Don't worry about it until/unless he actually files, and then get yourself an attorney.

 

[d033326]

Thank you so much!!! I appreciate your time!!!

 

[d033326]

The reality of things is that dad would need a change in circumstance to accomplish a change in custody. At this time, there is absolutely no change in circumstance. The change to homeschooling might have been a change in circumstance back in 2006, but its too late for him to make any claims about that now, particularly since your son is doing well with it.

Its quite "classic" for a parent that has been hit up with a child support increase, particularly a high child support increase, to threaten to file for custody, or to even follow through with filing. However, judges catch on to that quite quickly...particularly if the parent isn't currently exercising all of the parenting time they are allowed in the court orders.

Don't worry about it until/unless he actually files, and then get yourself an attorney.

Hi I'm here again with the sequel of this case.
Now that I have the paperwork, I can explain a little better. Currently, according to the custody order, I have legal and primary physical custody of our son, and his father has partial custody every other weekend from Friday at 4pm to Sun at 6pm, and on Tue and Thurs from 4:30 to 9pm.

On July 31, he filed to modify the order where he would have equal time with our son, and is requesting shared physical and legal custody of him.

In consideration of the original questions and this current request of his to the court, I would like to know if I should cross file for contempt(he does not and has not gotten him on Tues and Thurs since three months after he requested the first order.

***To be fair, he did watch him in Sept 2004 to June 2005(Mon thru Fri between 6:45 and 9:00 pm) and Sept 2005-Feb 2006 (Mon and Wed between 6:45 and 8:30, the days changed because his father stated he couldn't keep him for the entire week anymore because he wanted to look for another job) when I worked second shift and requested he keep our son to offset me having to pay for two daycare center bills in order for me to maintain my job. Even when I asked him to watch him at that time so that he would not be in two daycare centers, but with family, his comment to me was 'What would you do if I said no" I let him know that either way, I would make a way, but I was asking him so that he wouldn't be with strangers all day. He watched him during the school year, and I sent him to daycamp and a friends house during the summer.

Prior to that and since then, his father has not attempted to get our son on the days he requested outside of every other weekend. I left my job for quite a few reasons, and decided to work from home full time and teach our son via a State run Virtual Charter School from home.

I am interested in knowing if

1. I should cross file an argument that he is not following through with the current order (and to make sure he is actually in contempt by not exercising his rights to see him during the times he requested)

2. Should I bring up the fact that the interest in his getting shared physical and legal custody didn't come up until the modification of the support order, which was decided on 07/10 by a judge because he contested the order stating that he couldn't afford to pay what was expected of him?

He also asked me prior to his filing to modify the custody to either take the order out of the courts and allow him to pay me himself or to lower the amount, I denied his request because I have carried the brunt of our son's care until this time and asked for his help financially once and was turned down. To recap, from the inception of the order till the date of modification(11 years ago), he was expected to pay 60 dollars per month, according to our incomes, now, he's to pay 433 per month, and he is requesting custody in order to offset the support order.


Any help would be appreciated, I know I was advised to seek a lawyer, and will, but would like to know what I can do in the mean time.

Thank you!!!

 

[meanyjack]

1. I should cross file an argument that he is not following through with the current order (and to make sure he is actually in contempt by not exercising his rights to see him during the times he requested)

There is no contempt here, that's not how it works. He was awarded parenting time, but it's his choice whether or not he wants to exercise it. If not, it's his loss. BUT YOU can be found in contempt if you do not have the child available at the times noted in the court order for his parenting time.

2. Should I bring up the fact that the interest in his getting shared physical and legal custody didn't come up until the modification of the support order, which was decided on 07/10 by a judge because he contested the order stating that he couldn't afford to pay what was expected of him

?

Well it's not a "fact", it's your opinion. And it's irrelevant. If he's filing he needs to prove it. As far as that "previous" period of time years ago, that's irrelevant. If he's been exercising the majority of his parenting time, then you really have nothing to complain about because the court will see you coming across as nit-picking, IMO.

If he doesn't have joint legal custody with you, then he should and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't. Joint physical...well, that's another story.

 

[LdiJ]

I disagree with the previous post. For the last three years, at least, dad has not been exercising all of the parenting time that he currently has under the existing court orders. He could be seeing his child 2 other times a week on top of the every other weekend.

You are homeschooling and can prove how well your son has been doing with the homeschooling. While dad doesn't like that, you apparently have sole legal custody so it was your decision to make. Since dad is not on board with the homeschooling, he would be unlikely to cooperate with it if the timeshare was 50/50, which could derail your son's progress.

On top of that, he is asking for 50/50 right on the heels of a child support increase.

Those are the arguments that you need to be making to the judge.

 

[d033326]

There is no contempt here, that's not how it works. He was awarded parenting time, but it's his choice whether or not he wants to exercise it. If not, it's his loss. BUT YOU can be found in contempt if you do not have the child available at the times noted in the court order for his parenting time.

?

Well it's not a "fact", it's your opinion. And it's irrelevant. If he's filing he needs to prove it. As far as that "previous" period of time years ago, that's irrelevant. If he's been exercising the majority of his parenting time, then you really have nothing to complain about because the court will see you coming across as nit-picking, IMO.

If he doesn't have joint legal custody with you, then he should and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't. Joint physical...well, that's another story.

I'm getting that you are saying that even though he requested to have two days out of the week and every other weekend, that even though he doesn't actually do what the order states, it's ok, because it's his choice. Sir, I don't get a choice when my child needs food, clothing, me being there or anything else. When did parenting become a choice?

He ia not asking for visitation, he's asking for equal legal and equal physical rights to our child, but has not taken advantage of the physical time he has already been legally awarded by the court, my contesting and bring this up would be considered nit picking?.

I would NOT have a problem with his request if he were parenting our son at least during the times he requested, but I DO have a problem with it, because he has shown no interest, in my opionion as a parent who has parented our child the days I already have and the days he chooses not to show up to follow the order he requested.

It seems that a parent can arbritrarily use the courts to interrupt the life of their child, request the court to allow them to have certain rights, and ignore them, but on paper, because it looks one way, which allows them to take away from the monetary support of that child as well (which started this in the first place...a telephone voice message from him stating this may or may not prove this as fact). The court awards him 168 (which is 1 day shy of half of the year) days of access to his child, he actually sees him on 78. This is not most of the time, it's not even HALF nor in my opinion is it nitpicking.

If this is what I can expect from a judge or the courts as in the best interest of my child, but at the same time, as his legal parent, knowing that if my behavior were the same, I'd lose physical and legal custody due to negligence, our children are being screwed bigtime.

Thank you for your response.

 

[d033326]

I disagree with the previous post. For the last three years, at least, dad has not been exercising all of the parenting time that he currently has under the existing court orders. He could be seeing his child 2 other times a week on top of the every other weekend.

You are homeschooling and can prove how well your son has been doing with the homeschooling. While dad doesn't like that, you apparently have sole legal custody so it was your decision to make. Since dad is not on board with the homeschooling, he would be unlikely to cooperate with it if the timeshare was 50/50, which could derail your son's progress.

On top of that, he is asking for 50/50 right on the heels of a child support increase.

Those are the arguments that you need to be making to the judge.

Thank you very much for your advice!!! This is what I was asking, and I appreciate your unbiased response!!!

 

[meanyjack]

This is what I was asking, and I appreciate your unbiased response!!!

Please stop using words you do not know the meaning of. That word being 'unbiased'. Since you don't know me, it makes you look foolish using a word you're not using properly.
It's like people who like to use the word 'socialist.'

 

[meanyjack]

I disagree with the previous post. For the last three years, at least, dad has not been exercising all of the parenting time that he currently has under the existing court orders. He could be seeing his child 2 other times a week on top of the every other weekend.

You are homeschooling and can prove how well your son has been doing with the homeschooling. While dad doesn't like that, you apparently have sole legal custody so it was your decision to make. Since dad is not on board with the homeschooling, he would be unlikely to cooperate with it if the timeshare was 50/50, which could derail your son's progress.

On top of that, he is asking for 50/50 right on the heels of a child support increase.

Those are the arguments that you need to be making to the judge.

Sigh. What part of my response was not clear?

He will not be held in contempt for not exercising his parenting time. If you believe that, then some case law, please.

 

[LdiJ]

Sigh. What part of my response was not clear?

He will not be held in contempt for not exercising his parenting time. If you believe that, then some case law, please.

You were not clear. It sounded like you were telling her that it was not a defense for his suit for 50/50 custody. That she was nitpicking to use that as an argument.

I agree that she cannot file for contempt against him for that.

 

[meanyjack]

I'm getting that you are saying that even though he requested to have two days out of the week and every other weekend, that even though he doesn't actually do what the order states, it's ok, because it's his choice. Sir, I don't get a choice when my child needs food, clothing, me being there or anything else. When did parenting become a choice?

For chrissakes -- spare me the dramatics. The LEGAL FACT remains that there is no contempt because a parent is not exercising their parenting time awarded to them. But it doesn't bode very well for them when they ask the court for more time.

He ia not asking for visitation, he's asking for equal legal and equal physical rights to our child, but has not taken advantage of the physical time he has already been legally awarded by the court, my contesting and bring this up would be considered nit picking?.

I would NOT have a problem with his request if he were parenting our son at least during the times he requested, but I DO have a problem with it, because he has shown no interest, in my opionion as a parent who has parented our child the days I already have and the days he chooses not to show up to follow the order he requested.

Legal shared physical and legal shared custody are separate issues. If he has not been exercising his parenting time regularly, then that is your response to his motion. Bring specific dates over the past year, plus. But there's no need to go back 3-4-5 years. Just long enough to establish a pattern to the court.

It seems that a parent can arbritrarily use the courts to interrupt the life of their child, request the court to allow them to have certain rights, and ignore them, but on paper, because it looks one way, which allows them to take away from the monetary support of that child as well (which started this in the first place...a telephone voice message from him stating this may or may not prove this as fact). The court awards him 168 (which is 1 day shy of half of the year) days of access to his child, he actually sees him on 78. This is not most of the time, it's not even HALF nor in my opinion is it nitpicking.

Happens all the time...people think they are above orders -- parents who don't make kids available for ordered parenting time and parents who don't pay their child support. BOTH are criminal.

If this is what I can expect from a judge or the courts as in the best interest of my child, but at the same time, as his legal parent, knowing that if my behavior were the same, I'd lose physical and legal custody due to negligence, our children are being screwed bigtime.

Thank you for your response.

Again, spare me and the rest the emotions. They have no relevance in a court room. Nobody cares. Just facts. And what a parent "thinks" is not fact.

The end.

 

[d033326]

Please stop using words you do not know the meaning of. That word being 'unbiased'. Since you don't know me, it makes you look foolish using a word you're not using properly.
It's like people who like to use the word 'socialist.'

un·bi·ased, which describes the poster I used the word in response to
adjective

Definition:

1. not biased: fair and impartial rather than biased or prejudiced

un·bi·ased·ly adverb
un·bi·ased·ness noun


biased which in my opinion describes your response to me. No, I do not know you, but in my opinion, it fits your response.

bi⋅as  /ˈbaɪəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bahy-uhs] Show IPA noun, adjective, adverb, verb, bi⋅ased, bi⋅as⋅ing or (especially British) bi⋅assed, bi⋅as⋅sing.
Use bias in a Sentence
2. a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

–verb (used with object) 9. to cause partiality or favoritism in (a person); influence, esp. unfairly: a tearful plea designed to bias the jury.



Synonyms:
2. predisposition, preconception, predilection, partiality, proclivity; bent, leaning. Bias, prejudice mean a strong inclination of the mind or a preconceived opinion about something or someone. A bias may be favorable or unfavorable: bias in favor of or against an idea. Prejudice implies a preformed judgment even more unreasoning than bias, and usually implies an unfavorable opinion: prejudice against a race. 9. predispose, bend, incline, dispose.


Antonyms:
2. impartiality.

I asked for an opinion based upon the best interest of my child, not one that favors either parent. Your response showed bias when you stated that his father had a choice to parent his child whenever he decided to show up and that it would be nitpicking for me as his other parent to address the fact that he chooses not to take advantage of the time he actually has, but is asking for more, and that it was my opinion, rather than fact that only after an increase in the expected child support, did he ask to be granted more rights on top of the ones he currently ignores.

In your opinion, I look foolish, thank goodness I know better.