Duty to Retreat / Self Defense Case

[PayrollHRGuy]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Read the law.

 

[quincy]

... Someone charges at you to do you harm, they deserve being met with lethal force. No jury will say this is an unreasonable act in just about any jurisdiction.

Do you have a reliable source to back up that statement? The duty you have is to retreat.

If you are personally involved in a situation like the ones described, you should be speaking to your attorney only.

 

[user987654321]

What this all boils down to is, the OP has no real interest in the legal answer to his question. He's just looking for someone to agree that he has the protected right to lethal force and then call it self-defense, regardless of the situation.

I don't see any "legal" response nor any post from anyone claiming to be an attorney in fact so if you are an attorney, do clarify.

In my very first post, what was cited there are directly from the FL self defense statute. Some here are actually trying to tag on to the statute what is not there.

The statute on this in FL says you can use deadly force to stop a "forcible felony" which it also defines legally here ( https://tinyurl.com/forciblefelony ) You can also use deadly force in FL if by your calculation, death or bodily harm is imminent. The statute says nothing about fleeing from your attacker -- not in FL.

It only says that if you are to invoke self defense, (1) you cannot have been engaged in a criminal act at the time and (2) must have been in a place that you had a legal right to be.

 

[cbg]

That's not how I read the law Payroll posted. And I certainly wouldn't want to be the test case.

But if you're willing to put your freedom on the line to prove a theory, go to it. It's your life and liberty you'll be risking. No skin off my nose.

(Seems to me Florida still has the death penalty...)

 

[quincy]

I don't see any "legal" response nor any post from anyone claiming to be an attorney in fact so if you are an attorney, do clarify.

In my very first post, what was cited there are directly from the FL self defense statute. Some here are actually trying to tag on to the statute what is not there.

The statute on this in FL says you can use deadly force to stop a "forcible felony" which it also defines legally here ( https://tinyurl.com/forciblefelony ) You can also use deadly force in FL if by your calculation, death or bodily harm is imminent. The statute says nothing about fleeing from your attacker -- not in FL.

It only says that if you are to invoke self defense, (1) you cannot have been engaged in a criminal act at the time and (2) must have been in a place that you had a legal right to be.

Again, are you looking for a defense for yourself, or is this a hypothetical situation? If you are merely looking to sate your curiosity, that is really not the purpose of this forum.

 

[user987654321]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Read the law.

If you have read the law, then you should read and understand my post (or question).

 

[user987654321]

Again, are you looking for a defense for yourself, or is this a hypothetical situation? If you are merely looking to sate your curiosity, that is really not the purpose of this forum.

This is not a hypothetical case.

 

[user987654321]

@user987654321 - why does this matter to you?

I seem to be getting conflicting information on the issue.

 

[user987654321]

both have a duty to retreat.

This is weird. When under attack, I am not sure that you wait or hope for an attacker to retreat.

 

[quincy]

This is not a hypothetical case.

Okay. Interesting. I thought it probably was.

What sort of “attack” are we talking about - and what sort of attacker?

Someone charging at you with fists flying is far different from someone holding a knife at your throat. A young child hitting you is different from a burly ex-convict threatening to slit your throat.

Facts matter. No one on any forum will be able to gather all of the facts necessary to tell you with any degree of reliability if a claim of self defense can excuse a use of force if the force used injures or kills someone else, this whether the combatants were in a place they should not have been or not.

IF you have been charged with a crime, or expect to be charged with a crime, the best advice I can give you is to get yourself a good criminal defense attorney instead of trying to build a defense from what you read on the internet.

 

[adjusterjack]

I seem to be getting conflicting information on the issue.

That's because you are not giving the exact details of exactly what happened.

GIGO.

It's an old computer term meaning that the answer you get from a computer is only as good as the information you feed into it.

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

So far, you've only been feeding us garbage.

 

[user987654321]

That's because you are not giving the exact details of exactly what happened.

GIGO.

It's an old computer term meaning that the answer you get from a computer is only as good as the information you feed into it.

Garbage In, Garbage Out.

So far, you've only been feeding us garbage.

Or you don't understand the question. Sounds like you need to go find the thread discussing garbage to respond to?

 

[user987654321]

Okay. Interesting. I thought it probably was.

What sort of “attack” are we talking about - and what sort of attacker?

Someone charging at you with fists flying is far different from someone holding a knife at your throat. A young child hitting you is different from a burly ex-convict threatening to slit your throat.

Facts matter. No one on any forum will be able to gather all of the facts necessary to tell you with any degree of reliability if a claim of self defense can excuse a use of force if the force used injures or kills someone else, this whether the combatants were in a place they should not have been or not.

IF you have been charged with a crime, or expect to be charged with a crime, the best advice I can give you is to get yourself a good criminal defense attorney instead of trying to build a defense from what you read on the internet.

The exact facts are not relevant to answer the initial question which was about what the statute meant by: "being in a place where you had a legal right to be". And how someone looking to complicate your defense could use that as an excuse. The context of that line may not be as clear. Especially when you have a case where both combatants technically were at a location after hours.

If you had to defend yourself from an attacker who also had no legal right to be somewhere, why would the legality of either party being there matter as to your ability to invoke self defense?

I am sure there is some case law out there that deals specifically with this. I have even seen some case law looking to attack whether or not a defendant can invoke self defense on grounds that defendant legally was not entitled to have a weapon and such challenges in some if not most cases usually fails.

 

[quincy]

The exact facts are not relevant to answer the initial question. Remember the question was about what the statute meant by: "being in a place where you had a legal right to be". And how someone looking to complicate your defense could use that as an excuse. The context of that line may not be as clear. Especially when you have a case where both combatant technically were at a location after hours. If you had to defend yourself from an attacker who also had no legal right to be somewhere, why would the legality of either party being there matter? I am sure there is some case law out there that deals specifically with this.

Actually, exact facts always matter.

If you want to claim self defense, and you have at least some evidence to support this claim, you can work with your lawyer to develop this defense. Your attorney will find the case law most relevant.

You should know that self defense is not an ironclad defense, no matter who you are, where you are, or what activity you happen to be engaged in.

 

[adjusterjack]

Or you don't understand the question. Sounds like you need to go find the thread discussing garbage to respond to?

Deflect much?