Dyslexia and School Responsibility

[Zigner]

AGAIN - Section 504 accommodations have been suggested. For now, that is a good idea.

For weeeezzll - being diagnosed with Dyslexia would NOT automatically qualify a child for Special Education services.

 

[ecmst12]

Why do you think a child with learning disabilities can't grow up to be an exceptional adult if they get the attention they need during school? You know Einstein was dyslexic, right? That's an extremely narrow-minded view. There are PLENTY of children that are both intellectually gifted AND challenged in some way. I have ADHD, but I have above average intelligence. If I'd had an EFFECTIVE IEP in school, I would have gotten a lot more out of my education and would probably be in a much higher tier job because of it. Since I didn't get proper treatment for my ADHD until towards the end of college, I never reached my true potential in school, and missed the chance to learn a lot of things early on.

Oh, and gifted children get special resources too.

I'm really offended by that entire idea. Anyone that needs extra help should be left behind, screw them, they'll never be productive enough to justify the cost anyway? Sorry dude, screw YOU and anyone else with that line of thinking. Maybe all your children are or will be perfect, since if they're not you would just let them falter and fail without assistence. What a short-sighted person you must be.

 

[cbg]

A list of famous people with dyslexia - I hope you'll agree that at least some of these were able to contribute to society.

Famous People who are Dyslexic or had Dyslexia

 

[boscomom]

For those who have suggested a 504: Do you know what publication I should refer to to find the flow chart of procedures for a 504? Right now I am referring back to the IDEA and I'm not sure if that is applicable for a 504. I haven't heavily researched the 504, but my initial thoughts are that the requirements for the 504 are very similar as the IEP (wait to fail).

For those who have had a negative experience with an IEP: I would love to hear your feedback. It's never a bad thing to gather too much information and hear both sides of the story.

I also wanted to add my opinion about labels: I don't even remember thinking negatively of those kids who qualified for services outside the traditional classroom, in fact, I always remember feeling envious that they got to get away LOL. I also think that schools have managed a way to perform pull out services without making it as terribly obvious as it may have been in the past. My son does qualify for Title (which is a reading pull-out service) and he thinks it's great - he thinks I signed him up for "reading club".

In reference to my original question about what steps I need to take and where I lie in regards to the process: I have finally found an answer as to where I stand with legal rights and all that mumbo-jumbo - I would have to file for a due process hearing and take it to the board. I understand that the school has followed procedure and I would only be spinning my wheels at a higher level. With that in mind, I am determined to keep the relationship with school personnel positive, and am choosing not to file (as the outcome would not change anyway). I will however file a request for an MFE at the beginning of every school year as it will eventually become warranted.

My frustration lies with the process - not the people in the room at the meeting - and not with school personnel. I understand that the lax rules and procedures allowed for to many children to qualify, and that the new procedures are a safeguard. However, the wait to fail method that is in place in much more costly in the long term than early intervention would be.

 

[boscomom]

So you can feel special - here is a reply dedicated solely to you.

Good deal for all of you and your theories of political correctness. I certainly have sympathy for your particular struggles in life. However, if the person wanted government resources outside of governmental guidelines because they thought it was appropriate, I am uncertain how I should apologize for feeling they should focus on the guidelines.

If you refer to my original question, it was focusing on the guidelines and where I fell within those guidelines.

People who think an apology is important to my comments should post as to why. Defend the reason why you think there is a right. Of course, if we do, then we may someday have a vote regarding limited governmental resources and determine the democratic response.

No thank you.

Personally, and I know it will not be popular, but, I think scarce governmental resources should go to the exceptional, not the limited. We should try to help those who have the potential to cure cancer more than help those who will bring the person up to a productive level. Just my theory, if you want me to apologize for it, suck it.

In a sense, I agree, but seeing as though you are incapable of forming an intelligent argument, your point was lost in the sea of stupidity in which you sit.

My legal theory to the OP is that she should look to procedure and determine if it has been violated. If not, she's going to make new law which will be expensive. If she is interested in her child, the money would better be spent in appropriate education. If the general theory, sue and hope a new right is developed. Her choice.

Again with the belittlement. Furthermore, no one has ever responded with your "general theory" of suing and hoping a new right is developed.

It's not that I don't have sympathy for those with struggles. It's not that I am unwilling to pay extra for those with struggles to help them and accept there may be benefit to me to do that help. (Quite franky, I accept democracy and will deal with the effects of representatives, saying, "yes" to the OP's demands.)

Pick a side dude! You argue against, you argue for. I think you just like to argue, but lack the intelligence to do it effectively.

But, you can kiss certain areas of my anatomy if you think I should be required to pay for what a mommy wants, because of some theory she has, about what should be done, if it is outside of the democratic debate about what the government requires of me.

A kiss is not what I had in mind. And what "mommy" wants is the only research based, proven method of reading instruction for a dyslexic. Read a book, it's not a "theory", it's stated fact.

Really people. Apologize? I apologize at the drop of a hat as my mother taught me not to be rude. But, your politically correct attitudes are not based in LAW. If you want the law to change to how the OP would prefer (Many others as well. I don't dispute there is need.), don't give me some crapola about apology. Basic. Political. Theory.

I don't need an apology. Basic. ****. Stirrer.

 

[stealth2]

If your child could not read, would you wait until 3rd grade to help them? Further, why would I wait until 3rd grade to treat a problem that could be dealt with now and by doing so I would better ensure his future success?

<snip>

I am fully capable of meeting my son's needs without the assistance of his school, however, I strongly feel that they need to be held accountable as well and also need to be educated on the aspects of dyslexia.

And, frankly, that is what *I* would be doing until I was no longer capable of meeting his needs. That's what most parents do. Seriously.

 

[OhGosh]

Boscomom,

You seem to be getting very little legal advice here. You should look for an educational advocate in your area.

If you request an IEP evaluation the school has to perform the evaluation. Also, the standard for their rejection of an IEP for your child is inappropriate. Underachievement is measured against the child's own expected ability - not against a normative performance standard. These are federal laws.

There is an appeals process and you should begin it. As I recall you can request an administrative review or mediation. Although there are federal laws to be followed, I've found each school is fairly independent in determining eligibility until the issue is raised to the next level. I have dealt with two different school systems at 3 different schools and have been shocked at how little the administrators know about IDEA and laws.

On to my opinions...

504 plans are band aids. They allow the school to provide pencil grips, slant boards, perhaps more time on reading assignments etc. They do not provide remediation. Your child is likely to need reading remediation. The 504 plan allows for cheap accommodations but will do little to help your child read, write, etc. An iep can include all the accommodations of a 504 plan. A 504 plan will rarely include the resources that an IEP will provide.

Anyone who counsels you to avoid the resources and protection of an IEP for a child with a learning disability is not helping your child. The school will not be required to provide the resources your child may need to succeed in school without the IEP. The concerns about stigmas with the special ed system these days are based on ignorance. Children are rarely pulled from mainstream classes. At our school special education teachers came in to help the children at specific tasks as indicated by the IEP.

It is just bad advice that you should wait until the child is failing. I believe from your post that your child was doing ok. That may not be good enough. The IEP process is slow. Do not wait until your child is struggling in school.

Do not listen to the suggestion that you are taking resources away from more deserving children. None of us have any idea what resources are available at your school and if the special ed teachers are overwhelmed or not. At my son's school the special ed teachers are underutilized and we are being offered services even though my children attend private school.

I've just tried searching through the FAQs for this site and I can't tell if we're allowed to post links or not. A more helpful site is Wright's Law which specializes in helping families understand their rights through the process. There used to be forums through Schwab Learning that were very helpful.

Our situations are very similar. My son has the same diagnosis and I didn't push for an IEP until 1st grade. That meant he got no real help until 2nd grade.

One more little thing, children with learning disabilities particularly those with motor issues are much more likely to have problems with depression and are much more likely to commit suicide as adolescents. Kinda says maybe it's not a good idea to let this stuff go.

Best of luck to you Boscomom and to your child. Also, pat yourself on the back for being a great mom.

 

[HappyWanderer]

Why do you think a child with learning disabilities can't grow up to be an exceptional adult if they get the attention they need during school? You know Einstein was dyslexic, right? That's an extremely narrow-minded view.

Bad example, he didn't get any special attention in school.

There are PLENTY of children that are both intellectually gifted AND challenged in some way. I have ADHD, but I have above average intelligence.

Although we didn't diagnose such things in my day, when I read on the topic today, I bet money I'd be diagnosed ADHD too.

Oh, and gifted children get special resources too.

The money available to the gifted is dwarfed by the resources demanded in dealing with disabilities.

I'm really offended by that entire idea.

I think the OP should follow the law and gave what I thought would be the best way to be successful. I then gave one reason why the law is as it is, because other people are paying for the benefit. While you can be offended by the idea that, at some point, limited resources must be targeted on the most efficient use, I'm not. Maybe I'll go out an suggest mandatory coverage of mammograms on both men and women starting at age 12 to save the small percentage of men and young women who get breast cancer. But, then we might not be able to cover treatment for all those we do catch with mandatory coverage of women at 40 (or 50). The call is obviously much closer here in this particular case. But, the rules are created by those who are trying to address the needs within available resources.

Excuse me, but I have to go over the "How do I sue a state agency?" thread in the wrongful termination area and laugh at the "snide comments and snarky behavior" by list members addressed at a qualified person who felt discriminated against in what seemed an unfair manner. The best part is when they point out the law was not in his favor so he should just accept their opinion on how good a person he is because they told him the correct law on the matter. Hilarity indeed.

 

[OhGosh]

The following is from HappyWanderer:
"I think the OP should follow the law and gave what I thought would be the best way to be successful. I then gave one reason why the law is as it is, because other people are paying for the benefit. While you can be offended by the idea that, at some point, limited resources must be targeted on the most efficient use, I'm not."

Are you familiar with IDEA and IEP/Special Ed laws? The OP is not ignoring the law in trying to resolve this. The laws do not say her child is ineligible for an IEP. The team at the school elected to ignore her independent testing and denied an IEP based on their lack of understanding of the law. How do you know how limited the resources are at the OP's school? You do not know that.

 

[ecmst12]

Bad example, he didn't get any special attention in school.

And he also failed in school and had a terrible, low-paying job as an adult. If he'd HAD the resources that children have available now, how much MORE could he have accomplished?

 

[HappyWanderer]

Exactly. Maybe we wouldn't have hunger or poverty. Oh, WHY DIDN'T WE TRAIN EINSTEIN APPROPRIATELY? Good luck with your theory. Especially with the parts where we can assume things which have no basis in reality.

 

[HappyWanderer]

As to OhGosh, I want the OP to rely and focus on procedure. It is the reliance on what is "right" where she will fail. I care not, nor do I know all the legal procedure here. I merely suggested she focuses on that.

What is your opinion on the matter?

 

[Zigner]

The following is from HappyWanderer:
"I think the OP should follow the law and gave what I thought would be the best way to be successful. I then gave one reason why the law is as it is, because other people are paying for the benefit. While you can be offended by the idea that, at some point, limited resources must be targeted on the most efficient use, I'm not."

Are you familiar with IDEA and IEP/Special Ed laws? The OP is not ignoring the law in trying to resolve this. The laws do not say her child is ineligible for an IEP. The team at the school elected to ignore her independent testing and denied an IEP based on their lack of understanding of the law. How do you know how limited the resources are at the OP's school? You do not know that.

OhGosh - I am VERY familiar with the laws as they relate to IEP's and accommodations under section 504. The OP has presented NO evidence that her child qualifies for an IEP. None, zero, zilch. The diagnosis of dyslexia is NOT an automatic qualifier.

 

[boscomom]

If you request an IEP evaluation the school has to perform the evaluation. Also, the standard for their rejection of an IEP for your child is inappropriate. Underachievement is measured against the child's own expected ability - not against a normative performance standard. These are federal laws.

As far as the request for evaluation, they have every right to deny as he sits comfortably in the schools testing (NWEA) in the 50th percentile in reading and around 70% in math. I know a few years ago if a parent requested an evaluation, one was performed, but that is no longer the case.

With regard to the underachievement measurement, I went into more detail in response to the quote below.

OhGosh - I am VERY familiar with the laws as they relate to IEP's and accommodations under section 504. The OP has presented NO evidence that her child qualifies for an IEP. None, zero, zilch. The diagnosis of dyslexia is NOT an automatic qualifier.
Yesterday 08:20 PM

Another confusing issue for me here because "the IDEA defines children with disabilities as individuals between the ages of three and 22 who have one or more of the following conditions: specific named learning disability".

And further "To qualify for special education under IDEA, your child must have one of the listed disabilities, and the disability must "adversely affect his or her educational performance.

Okay, I have the specific named learning disability - check.

So, now on to the adversely affected education:

His IQ vs. his ability do not match up. He is at a 115-120 range (averaged out to a 117) in IQ, yet some portions of his reading ability won't even chart at a Kindergarten level because his scores are so low. On the other hand, in some of his mathematical abilities he is charting at a 2.9 (2nd grade, 9th month level).

He falls around the 90% percentile for a majority of his testing, but in some of the reading areas (those that are hallmark for dyslexia) he is scoring in the 8% percentile I don't know what the mathematical computations are in determining a "severe discrepancy", but I believe 90% to 8% is significantly severe.

You can see clear as day, in the evaluation, that his functioning level is not matching up with his IQ, but in school work, he has managed to hang in there. So, I have the adversely affected education as it relates to extensive testing, but not in the classroom. Yet another confusing aspect.

I don't know if I have just muddied the waters even more so, but I thought I would provide the information and see what the feedback is. I'm trying to play devil's advocate and see it from the schools point of view, but I guess I just can't because I only see it through my mommy goggles

I can see how the school can argue in their favor, yet I also see a strong and compelling argument in my favor. Because of all this somewhat contradictory information, I feel like following the legal procedures in this have not been black and white, there is so much gray area and that equates to me feeling confused as to where I fall.

504 plans are band aids. They allow the school to provide pencil grips, slant boards, perhaps more time on reading assignments etc. They do not provide remediation. Your child is likely to need reading remediation. The 504 plan allows for cheap accommodations but will do little to help your child read, write, etc. An iep can include all the accommodations of a 504 plan. A 504 plan will rarely include the resources that an IEP will provide.

Anyone who counsels you to avoid the resources and protection of an IEP for a child with a learning disability is not helping your child. The school will not be required to provide the resources your child may need to succeed in school without the IEP. The concerns about stigmas with the special ed system these days are based on ignorance. Children are rarely pulled from mainstream classes. At our school special education teachers came in to help the children at specific tasks as indicated by the IEP.

It is just bad advice that you should wait until the child is failing. I believe from your post that your child was doing ok. That may not be good enough. The IEP process is slow. Do not wait until your child is struggling in school.

Do not listen to the suggestion that you are taking resources away from more deserving children. None of us have any idea what resources are available at your school and if the special ed teachers are overwhelmed or not. At my son's school the special ed teachers are underutilized and we are being offered services even though my children attend private school.

I've just tried searching through the FAQs for this site and I can't tell if we're allowed to post links or not. A more helpful site is Wright's Law which specializes in helping families understand their rights through the process. There used to be forums through Schwab Learning that were very helpful.

What you have said is just about verbatim to the way I feel (if that makes sense).

 

[Zigner]

As far as the request for evaluation, they have every right to deny as he sits comfortably in the schools testing (NWEA) in the 50th percentile in reading and around 70% in math. I know a few years ago if a parent requested an evaluation, one was performed, but that is no longer the case.

With regard to the underachievement measurement, I went into more detail in response to the quote below.



Another confusing issue for me here because "the IDEA defines children with disabilities as individuals between the ages of three and 22 who have one or more of the following conditions: specific named learning disability".

And further "To qualify for special education under IDEA, your child must have one of the listed disabilities, and the disability must "adversely affect his or her educational performance.

Okay, I have the specific named learning disability - check.

So, now on to the adversely affected education:

His IQ vs. his ability do not match up. He is at a 115-120 range (averaged out to a 117) in IQ, yet some portions of his reading ability won't even chart at a Kindergarten level because his scores are so low. On the other hand, in some of his mathematical abilities he is charting at a 2.9 (2nd grade, 9th month level).

He falls around the 90% percentile for a majority of his testing, but in some of the reading areas (those that are hallmark for dyslexia) he is scoring in the 8% percentile I don't know what the mathematical computations are in determining a "severe discrepancy", but I believe 90% to 8% is significantly severe.

You can see clear as day, in the evaluation, that his functioning level is not matching up with his IQ, but in school work, he has managed to hang in there. So, I have the adversely affected education as it relates to extensive testing, but not in the classroom. Yet another confusing aspect.

I don't know if I have just muddied the waters even more so, but I thought I would provide the information and see what the feedback is. I'm trying to play devil's advocate and see it from the schools point of view, but I guess I just can't because I only see it through my mommy goggles

I can see how the school can argue in their favor, yet I also see a strong and compelling argument in my favor. Because of all this somewhat contradictory information, I feel like following the legal procedures in this have not been black and white, there is so much gray area and that equates to me feeling confused as to where I fall.



What you have said is just about verbatim to the way I feel (if that makes sense).

Then, as was mentioned, seek out the help of a special ed. advocate. I ended up contacting about a dozen before I found one who would take the case on (we prevailed).