Earnings question while collecting Social Security Retirement

[FlyingRon]

Is "the job" a self-employment situation or are you getting paid as an employee?

 

[Janke]

You are not working enough or earning enough money for the application of the hourly time on the Uber business to matter. You are not manipulating your income in order to be under the annual amount. You are paid just like the other Uber drivers. The special rule does not matter.

The hours on your wage job also don't matter.

The additional earnings will be automatically used in a computation that is done about once a year, after earnings post. So you could be owed a few buck retroactively next year. Don't expect too much if you only had 10 zero years since the lowest 5 are already dropped.

 

[WallaceCa]

Is "the job" a self-employment situation or are you getting paid as an employee?

Paid with tax taken an employee . 2 days a week Avg 7 hours a day

 

[FlyingRon]

Then, I agree with Janke. Since Uber is hardly a "skilled" profession, you won't trip the provision I mentioned earlier. He is correct. At the end of the year, as long as your Uber net proceeds (after you deduct your legitimate expenses on the Sched C) plus your "the job" earnings don't exceed the limit, you're fine.

 

[WallaceCa]

Thanks all!!!

 

[HRZ]

I do NOT know how that substantial services test works especially if you hold two jobs ....working over 45 hours a month at self employment poses questions , just on that one job... but it's clear the earnings test is still there. I might seek some clarification before I worked a lot more than 45 hours a month self employed ...which is not your current case .

 

[LdiJ]

I misspoke. I meant that Social Security would access an IRS quarterly report... The same way (I think) unemployment finds out if your working while collecting.

No, the SSA is NOT going to see any quarterly reports from the IRS for your UBER earnings. The SSA will not know about them until after tax time when the IRS tells them that you had self employment earnings.

Unemployment does not get info from the feds either, they get it from the states.

 

[HRZ]

SS has a rule within a rule ...but not entirely clear IF you are using your own capital equipment as in car if it applies

IN general service beyond 45 hours a month triggers the substantial service issue even if services are semiskilled

I doubt part time drivers is the focus of IRS

See/ Google. SSA. RS 02505.065 Meaning Of Substantial Services (SS) in Self-Employment (SE)

 

[WallaceCa]

Got you. Thanks.

I think...as I learn I'll be under that as I don't want to just be turning car equity into cash which is the case during the weekdays. 5.88 an hour vs 17-22 an hour prime weekend time. At that rate you operate at a loss as the MIT study showed. I just looked in May I took in $1192 and drove 1235 miles. 670 deduction...
The pay is .64 cents per mile and 9 cents a minute.

I pushed it a bit in May trying to get by after an unexpected layoff where I also lost a company car, divorce, buying a new car, moving costs and supporting a son while waiting 80 days for my first SS check. There (still) holding my first check until they find out if I took supplemental income... I would think they know I didn't. I don't even know what it is.

Now he has a job, will be living alone and I'll be OK with just the SSI and the 2 day job, even if I don't UBER. I plan to only UBER during the hours I can make top dollar but still avoiding the drunk crowd. 6-10 Fri Sat.

An interesting question (for me anyway) If I am sitting in my apartment< I do that a bit Sundays (or even in my car watching TV) with my Uber on waiting for a ride.....am I working? Is that time counted. Sometimes on Sunday its 30 minutes in the morning and again in the afternoon.

 

[LdiJ]

Got you. Thanks.

I think...as I learn I'll be under that as I don't want to just be turning car equity into cash which is the case during the weekdays. 5.88 an hour vs 17-22 an hour prime weekend time. At that rate you operate at a loss as the MIT study showed.
I pushed it a bit in May trying to get by after an unexpected layoff where I also lost a company car, divorce, buying a new car, moving costs and supporting a son while waiting 70 days for my first SS check.

Now he has a job, will be living alone and I'll be OK with just the SSI and the 2 day job, even if I don't UBER. I plan to only UBER during the hours I can make top dollar but still avoiding the drunk crowd. 6-10 Fri Sat.

An interesting question (for me anyway) If I am sitting in my apartment< I do that a bit Sundays (or even in my car watching TV) with my Uber on waiting for a ride.....am I working? Is that time counted. Sometimes on Sunday its 30 minutes in the morning and again in the afternoon.

Would UBER record that as working time?

 

[WallaceCa]

They record time online, requested trip time. Pick up time and drop off time.

You may not have seen it but I just added to the post above... The month I was worried about...does not seem to be a worry anymore.

I just looked in May I took in $1192 and drove 1235 UBER miles. 670 deduction...?
The pay is .64 cents per mile and 9 cents a minute. 90 cent pickup fee. 90 cent long pick up fee

I guess if anythings gonna get me its the hours

Examples of why miles/deductions are high:
I've driven 14 miles into a rural area to pick up someone and take her to the trailer park 3 miles down the street for $2.74 with no tip. Come home empty. 45 minutes and 33 miles= 17 dollar tax deduction-14 dollar loss?? (Uber does not let you know the customers destination prior to clicking start trip when they are in the car-I assumed they would not let you lose money-now I know)
Never again. Sorry lady. I've had a few of these but no more. Local cab would have been a 12 dollar flat. They get the local economic scene.

From what I understand until the recent Ca court decision (employee vs self employed) Uber would and could deactivate you for not accepting 80 percent of trips like this. Now if you see 14 miles away you can hit no thanks as many times as you want.
It's funny a liberal court will lead to what some will call discrimination. Your at the beach empty during a 3 time surge with a 20% chance of a tip and get a request in the inner city area. Decline and stay at the beach. Cabs have to go (at 3 times the rate) But is it discrimination?

In the small city people tend to go 1 way. 8-12 miles into the city bars between 7 and 9. So you drop and go back to the suburban area to get another ride (with a tip) vs being stuck in the inner city waiting 20 minutes for a 3 dollar ride with no tip, repeat-repeat...Sorry I can't operate at a loss.
Taxi's here have to take those rides but they get a 3 dollar pickup fee and double the mileage rate.

 

[WallaceCa]

BTW....64 cents per mile and 9 cents a minute.

Customer wants you to sit 30-45 minutes (9 cents a minute) in the long drive through line coming home from the bar?? Then no tip. Your screwed and missing another ride who may tip. There are only so many trips coming home at 2am. You refuse. They complain, lie, your deactivated from Uber and screwed.

The whole game is tipping and being in a surge area where you get 2-3 times the base pay. That's only on Friday Saturday nights and a few times on Sunday. Then I find on a good one 20% of my rides have both or at least 1 of those. Still amazes me I have people who live on tips not tip...Waitresses Hairdressers. People in 5 million dollar homes no tip...

 

[Janke]

SS has a rule within a rule ...but not entirely clear IF you are using your own capital equipment as in car if it applies

IN general service beyond 45 hours a month triggers the substantial service issue even if services are semiskilled

I doubt part time drivers is the focus of IRS

See/ Google. SSA. RS 02505.065 Meaning Of Substantial Services (SS) in Self-Employment (SE)

From the above POMS reference

In a grace year, it is significant whether a person renders SS in SE in order to determine benefits payable under the monthly earnings test

And from RS 02505.031

A grace year is a taxable year (TY) in which the MET applies. There are three types of grace years:

• initial grace year,
• grace year following a break in entitlement, and
• termination grace year.

Most people do not retire on December 31. For the year of retirement (the grace year), a monthly earnings test is applied, not the annual earnings test. If the monthly earnings test is applied, then this issue of substantial services matters, but only in that year. It is also used in the year that a child turns 18 and is terminated from benefits and goes to work making over the annual amount. That year is a grace year and the monthly amount matters, not the annual amount.

Many self-employed people can work every day in a month and not get paid anything; farmers plow the field and plant the crop but only get paid at harvest time. They are still working every day. Realtors or other commissioned sales people may be working every day in a month but not paid a commission until the next month or six months later. An Uber driver gets paid every time they accept a rider in their car. So the hours worked directly correlate with the money made. SSA will not be asking about substantial services for an Uber driver.

 

[WallaceCa]

From the above POMS reference

In a grace year, it is significant whether a person renders SS in SE in order to determine benefits payable under the monthly earnings test

And from RS 02505.031

A grace year is a taxable year (TY) in which the MET applies. There are three types of grace years:

• initial grace year,
• grace year following a break in entitlement, and
• termination grace year.

Most people do not retire on December 31. For the year of retirement (the grace year), a monthly earnings test is applied, not the annual earnings test. If the monthly earnings test is applied, then this issue of substantial services matters, but only in that year. It is also used in the year that a child turns 18 and is terminated from benefits and goes to work making over the annual amount. That year is a grace year and the monthly amount matters, not the annual amount.

Many self-employed people can work every day in a month and not get paid anything; farmers plow the field and plant the crop but only get paid at harvest time. They are still working every day. Realtors or other commissioned sales people may be working every day in a month but not paid a commission until the next month or six months later. An Uber driver gets paid every time they accept a rider in their car. So the hours worked directly correlate with the money made. SSA will not be asking about substantial services for an Uber driver.

>> SSA will not be asking about substantial services for an Uber driver

So no issue?