Elder Fiduciary Abuse – I could just throttle my aunt!!!

[rmet4nzkx]

If you want to be the next IAAL you are not off to a very good start. Not only does he start with smarta$$ comment.

If you had a legal "roadmap" you would understand Illinois looks to Califrnia courts for a lmany of its rulings. This includes POA cases. In fact both Illinois and California have specific clauses in POA forms that cover fraud. There is plenty of documentation in California about POA's and fraud. The POA does not give immunity to fraud.

While OP cites the existance of a POA the issue also includes those related to having a relationship of trust and being a caretaker, all or some may have been abused and or violated, that is what they will explore when they consult with an attorney who specializes in elder law. The sections of California law for elder abuse cover more than POA's per se.

 

[okamsrazor]

While OP cites the existance of a POA the issue also includes those related to having a relationship of trust and being a caretaker, all or some may have been abused and or violated, that is what they will explore when they consult with an attorney who specializes in elder law. The sections of California law for elder abuse cover more than POA's per se.

With which I agree. Get a lawyer who specializies in this and then let us know what happens with it. A POA can be abused easily against the elderly.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

With which I agree. Get a lawyer who specializies in this and then let us know what happens with it. A POA can be abused easily against the elderly.

OP was planning to get an attorney.

 

[JETX]

If you want to be the next IAAL you are not off to a very good start. Not only does he start with a smarta$$ comment, but his insults are much deeper and more personal.

Of course, I am still 'in training' by my mentor, Liable.

If you had a legal "roadmap" you would understand Illinois looks to Califrnia courts for many of its rulings.

What the hell are you talking about?? Are you off your meds again???
What happens in California courts (correct spelling!) have absolutely NOTHING to do with the laws or their application in Illinois!!
You really are legally ignorant, aren't you??

 

[okamsrazor]

Umm...actually caselaw from other states is regularly introduced into court cases both here in Illinois and every other state; especially when a precident does not already exist in the state the case is being tried in. Illinois law has become more liberal over the years and it is very common for cases from California to be an example for Illinois law. I also never said the case had anything to do with Illinois...just as you never claimed you "advice" pertained ONLY to California; I merely gave an example of what can happen in Illinois in a similar case to the one the OP stated.

 

[JETX]

Umm...actually caselaw from other states is regularly introduced into court cases both here in Illinois and every other state; especially when a precident does not already exist in the state the case is being tried in.

Ummmm.... WRONG AGAIN!! Clearly you have been watching 'The Practice' too long.
Case precedence is ONLY applicable when the ruling is within the same state, or District (on appeal) or Supreme Court (national).
In California, a Superior Court ruling is appealed to the Court of Appeal. A ruling from the Court of Appeal, is taken to the state Supreme Court. A California Supreme Court decision is a final decision in California and may be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court only if there is a federal issue involved.
For more, go to: http://www.weblocator.com/attorney/ca/law/c02.html#cac021000

precedent
1) n. a prior reported opinion of an appeals court which establishes the legal rule (authority) in the future on the same legal question decided in the prior judgment. Thus, "the rule in Fishbeck v. Gladfelter is precedent for the issue before the court in this case." The doctrine that a lower court must follow a precedent is called stare decisis

The ONLY way that a California ruling could have precedent value in Illinois is if the matter was heard by the US Supreme Court (as they are in different states AND different Federal Districts). Simply, California laws cannot be enforced in Illinois, and California court rulings have NO impact on Illinois courts.

I merely gave an example of what can happen in Illinois in a similar case to the one the OP stated.

And as I said.... your post was useless, without value, inane, etc.

 

[okamsrazor]

Actually-

You are wrong again. I never said anywhere in my post that it "created" law or set a precedent for the state considering it. However, when new cases arrive that lack precedent they DO look at previous cases that have been tried in other states and often enact similar rulings. If there is no precedent in one state they are not somehow BARRED from looking at a similar case from another state. I am not sure where you are getting that idea from.

http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/results.pl?co=dictionary.lp.findlaw.com&topic=6f/6f77ce8c448bb5bf6dd919062f4739f6


precedent
['pre-sed-ent]

: a judicial decision that should be followed by a judge when deciding a later similar case
(see also stare decisis)
(compare dictum)
Note: To serve as precedent for a pending case, a prior decision must have a similar question of law and factual situation. If the precedent is from the same or a superior jurisdiction (as the state's supreme court), it is binding upon the court and must be followed; if the precedent is from another jurisdiction (as another state's supreme court), it is considered only persuasive. Precedents may be overruled esp. by the same court that originally rendered the decision.


As you can see, a state can clearly use the precedent from another state if they so choose.

So as you said, your post was worthless, without merit...etc.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Actually-

You are wrong again. I never said anywhere in my post that it "created" law or set a precedent. However, when new cases arrive that lack precedent they DO look at previous cases that have been tried in other states and often enact similar rulings. If there is no precedent in one state they are not somehow BARRED from looking at a similar case from another state. I am not sure where you are getting that idea from.

So as you said, you post was worthless, without merit...etc.

OP was given reference to the applicible sections of the Ca. statutes that covered their questions, advice as to how to pursue, type of attorney required because it is a specialized area of law with many exceptions.

While fraud against the elderly is common and not prosecuted as frequently as it should be, examples of a case from the news had no bearing on what OP needed to do, if anything they needed to focus on educating themselves on California law and the merrits of their grandfather's case.

If you have a question about the prosecution of fraud or elder abuse start a new thread.

 

[JETX]

I never said anywhere in my post that it "created" law or set a precedent for the state considering it.

Gee, I guess you 'forgot' when you said, "you would understand Illinois looks to Califrnia courts for many of its rulings."

However, when new cases arrive that lack precedent they DO look at previous cases that have been tried in other states and often enact similar rulings.

Please provide ONE case where an Illinois court based an opinion on a precedent established by a California state court. What's that?? You can't?? No surprise.

If there is no precedent in one state they are not somehow BARRED from looking at a similar case from another state. I am not sure where you are getting that idea from.

There you go again... making things up. And though it doesn't and won't happen, where did I say that a state is BARRED from reviewing laws or cases from other states. I only said that the courts in one state do NOT use case precedents as set in other states.

And from your own post:
"If the precedent is from the same or a superior jurisdiction (as the state's supreme court), it is binding upon the court and must be followed; if the precedent is from another jurisdiction (as another state's supreme court), it is considered only persuasive. Precedents may be overruled esp. by the same court that originally rendered the decision."
The underlined portion above CLEARLY shows that your statements "Illinois looks to Califrnia courts for many of its rulings " and "it is very common for cases from California to be an example for Illinois law" are completely in error.