Elder Financial Abuse

[anteater]

My position is based on personal experience. Some otherwise well educated, professional and supposedly intelligent siblings we have will not understand that their behavior toward a parent is inappropriate. What I suggest is that this sister bring this topic up with her brother as an educational experience for him. This may quite well be enough to rein him in.

Not disagreeing. I regard your advice as one of the options for Step #2.

 

[4relvr]

I don't know that I would put it in moral/immoral terms. But Brother Billy Bob certainly does seem to be lacking in integrity.

That's an understatement.

But wait. It gets even better.,

Pieces of this case keep filtering in from investigative work done by my wife. She contacted her mothers bank and requested bank statements for the past 7 years. Now it appears that not only did her mother give them money to buy the house, but she apparently went to Macy's and bought the furniture to furnish it as well, to the tune of over 7K. Also, moneys that were loaned to them in 2007 & 2008 for cars and boats, and being paid back in monthly installments which had promissory notes signed by both her son and his wife , stopped in May of 2010 for some reason. My wife found the notes and her mother's records of payback. No payments received since May 2010.

Well, Mom, or her representative if she is no longer competent, and Brother Billy Bob could end up in a court room arguing before a judge and/or jury whether it was a loan or a gift.

Your wife seems to be ready to charge ahead with both barrels loaded. And commentator was advocating the nuclear option from the get-go. And, if I sensed less ambiguity in the situation, I would probably agree. Those exploiting the elderly, including family, should be shown no quarter.

This is just my opinion, for what it is worth. I think your wife should stow the shotgun in the trunk for now and have separate conversations with brother and Mom in as dispassionate a manner as she can manage. Just try to find out what each has to say about the transaction. Try to avoid using terms like "abuse," "swine," "rotten b*****d." Going in with guns blazing is likely to harden everybody's positions, leaving her options as accepting the situation and carrying a great, big grievance or going nuclear.

Then she can decide what course she wants to take.

I agree. I told my wife to make sure she has all your ducks lined up before confronting her brother. She needs to address them with the signed notes to find out why their payments stopped in May 2010, and to find out what their plans are if her mother should need more money to help pay for her future care.

 

[4relvr]

Thank you Commentator and Anteater for your helpful insight. My MIL appreciates it as well, even though she doesn't know it.

 

[4relvr]

I note that you ignored the questions about how you know what did or did not occur at the bank and what mother-in-law has to say about the transaction. Therefore one must conclude that the translation is:

Trying to find grounds for establishing mother-in-law's incompetence or evidence that brother-in-law exercised undue influence or that mother-in-law intended this to be a loan is not going well. We're desperately searching for someone to be the fall guy.

Look at this realistically. Say you bring suit against the bank. Are you expecting to discover a "memo to the file" that states:

"Mrs. XXX came in today with her son and daughter-in-law. Mrs. XXX seemed confused about why she was here and her son answered most questions. Still, we cut a check to the son and daughter-in-law."



Once again, as explained in your other thread, your wife is not responsible for her mother's debt.

While it may not actually be the case, you really should train yourself to maintain that your wife's concern is for the financial well-being of her mother rather than how much your wife stands to inherit or not inherit, as the case may be.

Here's an update on "bank's responsibility for large withdrawals" thread:
My county's District Attorney, where this took place, has agreed to take this case and, as we were told, is a gross misappropriation of funds by BofA. Also, the DA found out that the house, in which the BIL and wife purchased at 120K over market, was owned and sold to my BIL by BofA. The DA sees this as a conflict of interest so to speak in that they wanted to profit from the sale in any manner possible, including securing a loan for this house basically by allowing the MIL to give what in essence waa a down payment of 120K, secured by her real property, AND being the mortgage lender to the BIL.

So thats why BofA never even blinked when the MIL walked in with her son and his wife and gave them 120K secured by her home. They were tickled pink. Not only did they make over 150K in 3 months (they paid 320K for the house 3 months before selling it to BIL for 470K) but now they had the mortgage amount of 350K on it AND another 120K in loan guarantees from my MIL.

This is ALL about the financial well being of her mother. She is paying $800/month (from her retirement) on this note, money she should be using for herself and YES my wife WILL be responsible for 1/2 this debt!

Who is to say that anyone was behaving suspiciously. You are grasping at straws.

I'm done with you. Tigi - out

Apparently the bank was and the DA's office agrees enough with their discovery to take on the case.

Not grasping at straws, just moving timber.
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