Employer denying education assistance.

[eerelations]

<sarcasm off>
One more thing: “twig that” I am unfamiliar with this saying could you explain it a little?
<sarcasm on>

One more thing: "twig that".

Is this course you're wanting to take called "Basic English Comprehension Skills" by any chance?

(Note to Esteemed Colleagues: I think the more we keep responding to this retard, the more he's going to keep coming back with new and wilder idiocies. While watching someone make a complete fool of himself in public like this is certainly highly amusing for all of us, if we want to be kind to the lad we should stop responding to him and just let him go away and cease embarassing himself any more than he already has.)

 

[ecmst12]

I asked you to post the relevent section of the handbook, because I am certain that it contains language like 'company MAY reimburse' or 'at company's discretion' and most importantly, 'benefits are subject to change at any time with or without notice'. I'm guessing you read it and saw those phrases and know now that you are sunk.

The reason heath insurance enrollment is done for a year at a time and USUALLY can't be changed or cancelled except at open enrollment (there are exceptions of course) is because employer sponsored health plans are regulated by the IRS and federal law because of the tax exempt status. Tuition reimbursement programs have no such regulation and companies can pretty much offer or not offer whatever they want, with whatever conditions they want, and they can rescind the offer at any time.

IF you had already been approved for the course, had taken it and paid for it, had received the required grade and otherwise followed their rules for applying for reimbursement and only THEN had they told you there was no money, you might have a claim (if you were willing to risk your job over it). But that's not what happened or even close to it.

 

[cbg]

And I suspect that in his constant demands for "evidence" he is looking for a law that specifically gives the employer permission to change the benefit plan.

Too bad he's too ignorant of the way the law works to know that the law does not HAVE to give the employer permission. The law says what the employer must do, and must not do. It does not specify what the employer MAY do. Since no law prohibits the employer from withholding a benefit, the employer may legally do so.

 

[noname101]

Is this course you're wanting to take called "Basic English Comprehension Skills" by any chance?

(Note to Esteemed Colleagues: I think the more we keep responding to this retard, the more he's going to keep coming back with new and wilder idiocies. While watching someone make a complete fool of himself in public like this is certainly highly amusing for all of us, if we want to be kind to the lad we should stop responding to him and just let him go away and cease embarassing himself any more than he already has.)

I am not really sure where this is coming from since I already conceded the point. Once there was someone that actually added value to the board namely: ecmst1. Again I am really surprised as the anger because someone is trying to have a discussion a discussion board. If you are not happy with the discussion stop reading and stop posting. I mean really are you retarded? "Hey this really upsets me, I am going to keep doing it"

By the way if asking reasonable questions with supporting evidence is never embarrassing.

On the topic of basic English Comprehension it is embarrassing with two r's, maybe you need a refresher.

 

[noname101]

Please re-read my post. #2 states that we answer your question. Period. It doesn't say anything about the quality of the answer, it just says that we provide an answer. If you don't like the answer (i.e., you think it's incomplete, or wrong, or untrue, or inaccurate, or too short, or too long, or incomprehensible, or whatever), proceed to #3 - talk to an attorney of your choice.

And please note, this site is called "Free Advice" - when did an attorney ever provide free advice? Another instance of you not reading carefully enough.

That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. How old are you 7. I mean really to say your plan is to only give answers without caring what is right and what is wrong has got to be the stupidest reason for why I should believe what you say to be true. Move over it should cause me to doubt anything you say later because you do not even care if you are wrong or not.

 

[Silverplum]

Quotalicious because it's so rude.

That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. How old are you 7. I mean really to say your plan is to only give answers without caring what is right and what is wrong has got to be the stupidest reason for why I should believe what you say to be true. Move over it should cause me to doubt anything you say later because you do not even care if you are wrong or not.

 

[Zigner]

Again I am really surprised as the anger because someone is trying to have a discussion a discussion board.

Oh, NOW I understand the problem. You think this is a DISCUSSION board.

 

[noname101]

I asked you to post the relevent section of the handbook, because I am certain that it contains language like 'company MAY reimburse' or 'at company's discretion' and most importantly, 'benefits are subject to change at any time with or without notice'. I'm guessing you read it and saw those phrases and know now that you are sunk.

I have said a number of times the handbook has a 30 day notice. Here are some parts of the handbook if it helps. All though it does not seem to matter really.
<handbook>
This policy applies to you if you are:

full-time

part-time

While you are on a leave of absence, you are not eligible to participate in the Education Assistance Program.





You are covered under this policy immediately.





You do not need a certain performance rating to use the program, but you should not let the courses affect your job performance.
<handbook>
Then there is a list of approved classes and max amounts for a calendar year.

The reason heath insurance enrollment is done for a year at a time and USUALLY can't be changed or cancelled except at open enrollment (there are exceptions of course) is because employer sponsored health plans are regulated by the IRS and federal law because of the tax exempt status. Tuition reimbursement programs have no such regulation and companies can pretty much offer or not offer whatever they want, with whatever conditions they want, and they can rescind the offer at any time.

Thank you for that answer. I know that before I was trying to put education assistance in with insurance and call them benefits. I was under the impression that if you called it a benefit that it had to be applied evenly across the board. It seems to be the consensus that calling it a benefit does not mean that it need to be applied evenly across the board, which is surprising to me. I was really surprised when someone mentioned that they could change my insurance during the year, especially since they put no conditions around the statement. Can you elaborate or is it to complex for this discussion and I should not really be worried about it?

IF you had already been approved for the course, had taken it and paid for it, had received the required grade and otherwise followed their rules for applying for reimbursement and only THEN had they told you there was no money, you might have a claim (if you were willing to risk your job over it). But that's not what happened or even close to it.

I agree that would be different and that would suck too. I was simply trying to find out legal obligation the company had to apply a policy evenly across the board.

 

[noname101]

Is this course you're wanting to take called "Basic English Comprehension Skills" by any chance?

(Note to Esteemed Colleagues: I think the more we keep responding to this retard, the more he's going to keep coming back with new and wilder idiocies. While watching someone make a complete fool of himself in public like this is certainly highly amusing for all of us, if we want to be kind to the lad we should stop responding to him and just let him go away and cease embarassing himself any more than he already has.)

Oh and thanks again for not answering a direct question.

 

[cbg]

Benefits means more than insurance, etc. Vacation is a benefit. Flex time is a benefit. A subsidized subway pass is a benefit. But whether something is or is not a benefit has nothing whatsoever to do with how it is applied. You can call it a benefit; you can call it a toaster; you can call it Gary. What matters is not what it is called, but whether or not there are any legal ramifications to its application. There are legal ramifications to the application of health insurance (most but not all of the time). There are no legal ramifications to the applications of vacation, flex time, or tuition reimbursement.

NO benefit has to be offered strictly across the board. Even health insurance can be offered differently to differing classes of employees. And even health insurance can be discontinued with whatever notice your state or a legally binding contract may require. There is NOTHING in the law that says that if a benefit is offered to one it must be offered to all, and NOTHING in the law that says if a benefit is offered at any time it must continue to be offered in perpetuity.

An employer MAY - repeat, MAY - change their benefits at any time they may find it necessary. Handbooks are not contracts. Right from the beginning you were told this and right from the beginning you jumped up and down on the responders because you didn't like the response. But you were offended if anyone replied in kind. I guess only you are entitled to be offended, is that it?

 

[noname101]

Benefits means more than insurance, etc. Vacation is a benefit. Flex time is a benefit. A subsidized subway pass is a benefit. But whether something is or is not a benefit has nothing whatsoever to do with how it is applied. You can call it a benefit; you can call it a toaster; you can call it Gary. What matters is not what it is called, but whether or not there are any legal ramifications to its application. There are legal ramifications to the application of health insurance (most but not all of the time). There are no legal ramifications to the applications of vacation, flex time, or tuition reimbursement.

NO benefit has to be offered strictly across the board. Even health insurance can be offered differently to differing classes of employees. And even health insurance can be discontinued with whatever notice your state or a legally binding contract may require. There is NOTHING in the law that says that if a benefit is offered to one it must be offered to all, and NOTHING in the law that says if a benefit is offered at any time it must continue to be offered in perpetuity.

An employer MAY - repeat, MAY - change their benefits at any time they may find it necessary. Handbooks are not contracts. Right from the beginning you were told this and right from the beginning you jumped up and down on the responders because you didn't like the response. But you were offended if anyone replied in kind. I guess only you are entitled to be offended, is that it?

Thank you for that answer, it was very nice. I had some misunderstanding before this started and I have learned a lot. I have learned that in someplaces the handbook is legally binding to the employee, some place to both, and some places to none. I did not jump up and down on responders because I was unhappy with the fact that my assumptions were wrong. I was unhappy because I would ask questions about responses and responders would jump all over me for doubting them. It was not like I was not looking into the issue myself. I was and I was finding conflicting information between what I was finding no the internet and what was being told in here. Some of the responders were able to reconcile those conflicts and some the them simply were asses. I only returned what I received in kind. When did I have get offended? I did not take any of this personally so, how could I get offended? As I have said time and again, I did not understand the complexities of it, so I asked questions to clarify. Some people cannot stand to be questioned and that is just something that both parties have to deal with.

In the end was the first post the right answer. Sure. I cannot deny that. However, and this is the important part, answer with out and explanation is worthless. I only once said to someone during this "you are wrong", because I was in no place to say that. I simply wanted to understand how that answer I received contradicted with the other information I was gathering. It that has been explained now and I do appreciate that.

Am I to blame for how this discussion spiraled out of control, partly, but so are most of the people that responded. I can accept responsibility, and I apologize to anybody that I have offended, I should not have sunk to that level. I was simply trying to understand an issue that I was having and, I cannot stand an answer with no explanation. I will not apologize for asking follow up questions and I never will. If someone is offended by follow up questions that is something they will have to deal with.

In the end, thank you all for your help. It has been a blast, sorry it had to end. Maybe we can do this again sometime but I doubt you would want that to happen. Good luck to all of you and enjoy the freedom of speech, and all the problems that it can bring.

Thank you,
Noname101