Enforcing Lump Sum Spousal Support across state lines (VA court order, x now in NC)

[supportdefault]

I live in VA and have a court order, incorporated in the divorce, termed as "lump sum spousal support". When he stopped paying, I let it go for a while, but now I am disabled and wish to try to enforce this debt. He now lives in NC.

The debt was about $12,500 when he defaulted, carries a 10% interest rate (which I would be willing to negotiate), and he defaulted over 10 years ago. The original VA lawyer had advised that terming it "lump sum spousal support" would protect me from default. However, in the past, several VA lawyers have just thrown their hands in the air because it's across state lines and doesn't involve a child.

How can I proceed to get a NC court to accept and enforce my court order? Is there a statute of limitations? This court ordered settlement includes an interest rate, a minimum monthly payment, and does not regard children (there were none).

Are there steps I should take (like finding his employment, real estate, etc.) before getting a NC court to accept and enforce? Can I do this without hiring a lawyer? (Again, I'm on disability now)

Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

[Gracie3787]

I live in VA and have a court order, incorporated in the divorce, termed as "lump sum spousal support". When he stopped paying, I let it go for a while, but now I am disabled and wish to try to enforce this debt. He now lives in NC.

The debt was about $12,500 when he defaulted, carries a 10% interest rate (which I would be willing to negotiate), and he defaulted over 10 years ago. The original VA lawyer had advised that terming it "lump sum spousal support" would protect me from default. However, in the past, several VA lawyers have just thrown their hands in the air because it's across state lines and doesn't involve a child.

How can I proceed to get a NC court to accept and enforce my court order? Is there a statute of limitations? This court ordered settlement includes an interest rate, a minimum monthly payment, and does not regard children (there were none).

Are there steps I should take (like finding his employment, real estate, etc.) before getting a NC court to accept and enforce? Can I do this without hiring a lawyer? (Again, I'm on disability now)

Thank you in advance for any advice.

You should be able to file in VA if that is where the order was issued and you still live there.

You might need to explain to the court why you did not make any attempt to enforce the order for 10 years. If ex hires an attorney, that question is sure to come up.

Personally, I hope that you only get the arrears owed, and not any interest at all. Too many people treat spousal support and CS as a lttle nest egg that they can ignore, and then after many years decide to try to collect, knowing that they will collect alot more by waiting. Just 1 of my pet peeves.

 

[Ohiogal]

That is NOT lump sum spousal support. It is a property settlement. Quite frankly the SOL is probably up and you may therefore be SOL.

 

[LdiJ]

That is NOT lump sum spousal support. It is a property settlement. Quite frankly the SOL is probably up and you may therefore be SOL.

The SOL may not be up. I think that she meant that the original non-payment was 10 years ago and lump sum arrangment had been made since then. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

 

[Ohiogal]

The SOL may not be up. I think that she meant that the original non-payment was 10 years ago and lump sum arrangment had been made since then. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

I read it differently:

The debt was about $12,500 when he defaulted, carries a 10% interest rate (which I would be willing to negotiate), and he defaulted over 10 years ago. The original VA lawyer had advised that terming it "lump sum spousal support" would protect me from default.

She said he defaulted on the lump sum 10 years ago -- then the SOL is most likely up. And if he declared bankruptcy between then and now -- guess what? The original lawyer was very wrong. Or did the IRS accept lump sum property settlements as spousal support back then?

 

[LdiJ]

I read it differently:

She said he defaulted on the lump sum 10 years ago -- then the SOL is most likely up. And if he declared bankruptcy between then and now -- guess what? The original lawyer was very wrong. Or did the IRS accept lump sum property settlements as spousal support back then?

The IRS accepts lump sum ALIMONY payments even now. However, they will grab any wording possible in a decree to declare it a property settlement rather than alimony, especially property not being divided 50/50 outside of the lump sum.

For example, if the property settlement clearly outlines a full 50/50 split of all assets and debts, and then goes on to say that the wife agrees to accept the husband's share of the equity in the house as lump sum alimony it could very well fly with the IRS.

However, if the property settlement states that husband gets to keep his full 401k but gets half of all other assets/debts and then states that wife gets lump sum alimony that would have been about 1/2 of the 401k...or any other split of assets that indicates that they are trying to call part of the wife's share of assets as lump sum alimony, the IRS is going to disallow it.

Its a common tactic that doesn't work. However, the IRS recognizes that there are some instances where lump sum alimony may be financially appropriate. They are just fairly rare. One instance might be where there has been serious spousal abuse and long term financial ties between the spouses may be dangerous for the battered spouse.

 

[Ohiogal]

The IRS accepts lump sum ALIMONY payments even now. However, they will grab any wording possible in a decree to declare it a property settlement rather than alimony, especially property not being divided 50/50 outside of the lump sum.

For example, if the property settlement clearly outlines a full 50/50 split of all assets and debts, and then goes on to say that the wife agrees to accept the husband's share of the equity in the house as lump sum alimony it could very well fly with the IRS.

However, if the property settlement states that husband gets to keep his full 401k but gets half of all other assets/debts and then states that wife gets lump sum alimony that would have been about 1/2 of the 401k...or any other split of assets that indicates that they are trying to call part of the wife's share of assets as lump sum alimony, the IRS is going to disallow it.

Its a common tactic that doesn't work. However, the IRS recognizes that there are some instances where lump sum alimony may be financially appropriate. They are just fairly rare. One instance might be where there has been serious spousal abuse and long term financial ties between the spouses may be dangerous for the battered spouse.

Thanks for the information. Seriously. You are my tax go-to person. But I still think this OP could have major problems collecting.

 

[supportdefault]

Clarification of my question (and thanks to those discussing)

[/U][/U]This was a contract prepared and signed by both of us before/as we separated and was meant to be a settlement agreement My VA attorney termed it as spousal support so that he "could not use bankruptcy to get out of the debt". Again, this was signed BEFORE separation and much later, after numerous payments, incorporated in the divorce. At the time that he signed it, he instructed me on what to include and I then went to a lawyer and had it drawn up as HE had specified.

It was termed "lump sum spousal support", payable on demand, but allowed to be payed at a minimum of $150 per month (designed to keep him from going backwards), and it specifically stated that any payments would not be deductible on his taxes, nor taxable to me. The contract was signed by both of us before we separated and represented a property settlement, but with some special circumstances. I was the higher wage earner in a very short term marriage (3 years), but I put him through college (financially and tutoring him), performed all household duties, took all debt that we had, signed over a car, gave him a ton of cash to start his new life (their was no property - house or otherwise, because he'd spent everything), and again, I took all debt. He was even the one who insisted on the interest rate! This agreement, signed by both before we separated, was then incorporated in our court order / divorce decree. He paid 21 months from separation. Just a few months after the divorce became final.

He had an opportunity to object to the incorporation of the settlement contract in the divorce. He did not register an objection.

Again, it was essentially property settlement, with special reasons as stated above. I'd like to ad that when the amount was agreed on BEFORE SEPARATION, I voluntarily insisted on reducing the amount in the contract by $5,000 (and did so by hand). He paid for 21 months at the lowest amount possible.

I have learned from reading NC law, that they will honor the longer of the two statute of limitations in anything across state lines, however, I cannot find anything for either VA or NC on actual statute of limitations, if any, concerning "spousal support" (but perhaps should be looking at settlement agreements).

He defaulted over 10 years ago, and twice, I hired a lawyer to advise. Once in VA (hands in air due to state lines) and once in NC. I did not have a current address and was not disabled at the time. Due to the information now available on the internet, I have located his current property records for house and cars, current address, and current phone. I have no employment information.

I hope this helps! Again, I do know that NC will use whatever statute is longer and that both states have laws that appear to severely limit modification of such an agreement that is incorporated in a divorce decree. It appears to me that statute of limitations is my only issue. As for the interest, I would only want what is fair and would certainly even suggest lowering it based on a rate appropriate during a fairly low interest period. I really do need to try to pursue this if I can though. Disability is difficult when you have a mortgage and have not remarried!

Thank you to all who have shown interest and are trying to help!

 

[Ohiogal]

[/U][/U]This was a contract prepared and signed by both of us before/as we separated and was meant to be a settlement agreement My VA attorney termed it as spousal support so that he "could not use bankruptcy to get out of the debt". Again, this was signed BEFORE separation and much later, after numerous payments, incorporated in the divorce. At the time that he signed it, he instructed me on what to include and I then went to a lawyer and had it drawn up as HE had specified.

It was termed "lump sum spousal support", payable on demand, but allowed to be payed at a minimum of $150 per month (designed to keep him from going backwards), and it specifically stated that any payments would not be deductible on his taxes, nor taxable to me. The contract was signed by both of us before we separated and represented a property settlement, but with some special circumstances. I was the higher wage earner in a very short term marriage (3 years), but I put him through college (financially and tutoring him), performed all household duties, took all debt that we had, signed over a car, gave him a ton of cash to start his new life (their was no property - house or otherwise, because he'd spent everything), and again, I took all debt. He was even the one who insisted on the interest rate! This agreement, signed by both before we separated, was then incorporated in our court order / divorce decree. He paid 21 months from separation. Just a few months after the divorce became final.

He had an opportunity to object to the incorporation of the settlement contract in the divorce. He did not register an objection.

Again, it was essentially property settlement, with special reasons as stated above. I'd like to ad that when the amount was agreed on BEFORE SEPARATION, I voluntarily insisted on reducing the amount in the contract by $5,000 (and did so by hand). He paid for 21 months at the lowest amount possible.

I have learned from reading NC law, that they will honor the longer of the two statute of limitations in anything across state lines, however, I cannot find anything for either VA or NC on actual statute of limitations, if any, concerning "spousal support" (but perhaps should be looking at settlement agreements).

He defaulted over 10 years ago, and twice, I hired a lawyer to advise. Once in VA (hands in air due to state lines) and once in NC. I did not have a current address and was not disabled at the time. Due to the information now available on the internet, I have located his current property records for house and cars, current address, and current phone. I have no employment information.

I hope this helps! Again, I do know that NC will use whatever statute is longer and that both states have laws that appear to severely limit modification of such an agreement that is incorporated in a divorce decree. It appears to me that statute of limitations is my only issue. As for the interest, I would only want what is fair and would certainly even suggest lowering it based on a rate appropriate during a fairly low interest period. I really do need to try to pursue this if I can though. Disability is difficult when you have a mortgage and have not remarried!

Thank you to all who have shown interest and are trying to help!

This was NOT spousal support which is the issue you have. This was a property settlement. Spousal support is INCOME for you. YOu must pay taxes on it. Wording it the way you did made it NOT spousal support. Hence he could discharge it in bankruptcy AND you are going to have the statute of limitations problem. Though when would he have been done paying off the $150 a month payment if he had NOT missed a payment?

 

[LdiJ]

This was NOT spousal support which is the issue you have. This was a property settlement. Spousal support is INCOME for you. YOu must pay taxes on it. Wording it the way you did made it NOT spousal support. Hence he could discharge it in bankruptcy AND you are going to have the statute of limitations problem. Though when would he have been done paying off the $150 a month payment if he had NOT missed a payment?

I also have to say that it was a strange way to do things. You stated that you gave him a "ton of cash" and I can't understand why you did that if he was going to be owing you any money. He simply should have received less cash to cover whatever the money he was to pay you was to cover.