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ER didn't believe I was the mother

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Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Can you point me to the part of HIPAA that covers this?
Nothing in HIPAA restricts the hospital from treating anyone. The HIPAA privacy rule only restricts the people to whom the hospital may disclose protected health information (PHI). So the hospital certainly could have treated her, and they also could have had you sign to take on the obligation to pay for the care, too, without violating HIPAA. As a result, I don't see any reason why she needed to argue about HIPAA at the time of admitting your child. The time to argue about HIPAA is when you'd need to get PHI from the hospital regarding your daughter.

That said, the real issue at the time of admitting your kid is whether the hospital has the necessary consent to provide treatment. It isn't HIPAA that addresses consent for treatment, though the admitting nurse (or whatever position she was) may have thought that involved HIPAA. But while HIPAA isn't the law that addresses this, it is still the case that the hospital needs to get the consent of the patient if the patient is both legally and medically competent to grant consent, or get the consent of the patient's legal parent or guardian. Exactly what is needed depends on the applicable state law. In Colorado, when the parents are divorced which parent(s) may grant consent for treatment depends on the terms of the current custody/visitation order. Some orders grant the custodial parent the sole decision making power for medical treatment, at least absent a true emergency. Because of this medical personnel are often reluctant to assume an noncustodial parent has the power to consent to treatment for a minor and want to be sure of it before they proceed to provide treatment. So if the hospital admissions person was unsure of your ability to provide consent to treatment I can understand her caution. Providing treatment without proper consent (other than true emergencies when it is not possible to get consent before treatment needs to be provided) can cause the hospital all kinds of problems.

Note that in some instances the minor herself may give the consent to treatment. Colorado has a very detailed booklet on minor consent that you may find helpful.

Now back to HIPAA. As the child's parent, in general you are entitled to her PHI while she is still a minor so long as you qualify under the HIPAA regulations as being the child's personal representative. In particular, the applicable rule states the general rule as follows:


If under applicable law a parent, guardian, or other person acting in loco parentis has authority to act on behalf of an individual who is an unemancipated minor in making decisions related to health care, a covered entity must treat such person as a personal representative under this subchapter, with respect to protected health information relevant to such personal representation, except that...
45 C.F.R. § 164.502(g)(3)(i)(bolding added). As you can see from what I bolded, generally your right to PHI is tied to your authority to make health decisions for your child. So again, the current custody and visitation orders would be important. The rule does provide an exception for parent or guardian acting in loco parentis (which would include a noncustodial parent who is not the personal representative of the child but presently has physical control of the child during his/her visitation time) that would allow that parent to get the child's PHI if state law expressly allows for that. If state law expressly does not allow for it, then the disclosure must be denied. If state law is silent on it, then it falls to the discretion of the licensed medical professional. See 45 CFR § 164.502(g)(3)(ii).

So the bottom line on HIPAA here is that the provider has to be careful to ascertain whether the parent asking for the child's PHI either qualifies as the child's personal representative or is expressly qualified under state law to get it under the in loco parentis exception.

The full
HHS HIPAA regulations spell it all out in great detail.

The rules are complex enough that many medical professionals do get confused as exactly when disclosure is authorized. If they are uncertain, it's easier in the moment to say no rather than risk the chance of making an unauthorized disclosure.
 


quincy

Senior Member
I totally understand paperwork mistakes but they way to treated me and my daughter felt very out of line. She was standing there with chest pain and they were quibbling over papers. I wouldn't even have thought twice had it been approached like "Oh! We have different names listed as the only people that can sign for her. How about we get her into a room while we figure this out." They even admitted that if they couldn't reach her father to "give permission" they would still treat her, so why did they feel the need to make us stand in the hallway wasting valuable time (reminder... chest pain)? And they were super aggressive about it too, one of the women even came out from behind the desk to get in my face when I questioned why they needed to talk to her dad. Felt very aggressive and bullying, to be honest, especially since people working in a hospital should know to observe social distancing. Why did she need to get within a foot of my face to yell at me (yes she raised her voice) that she didn't believe me?

The entire thing was handled very poorly, I just wanted to get all my ducks in a row before speaking to the patient advocate. Figured I'd check about the HIPAA part of their claim because even if HIPAA covered this situation they definitely did several other things incorrectly.
It sounds like the reason for questioning your relationship to your child was because your name was not listed as parent in their computer records. This can be and should be corrected.

It sounds as if the hospital worker was respecting your child’s rights while at the same time protecting the hospital from violating HIPAA rules that restrict medical information disclosures.

BUT, a child who is brought into an ER experiencing chest pain should have been taken right away to an examination room. Quibbling over rights and permissions and insurance or whatever should always be secondary to the emergency needs of a patient.

I think you have good reason to be upset if the hospital worker took up time that should have been devoted to your child. I think speaking to a patient advocate could help you better understand the reasons for the hospital worker’s actions and could help the hospital better understand the reasons for your reactions to the hospital worker.

Your experience appears to be tied to a data entry error and perhaps poor communication. But I see no legal action to pursue.
 

SiliconDawn

Junior Member
Thank you, all. Since my daughter appears to be fine I agree there is no legal action to take (at this time, she's seeing her primary later this week and we'll see if the ER should have done something differently), but I definitely feel like I need to speak to the hospital about the way they handled everything. (More than just the check in, there were problems with the treatment as well, rather lack of treatment, but that wasn't my point of the post.) And her father wasn't even the custodial parent at the time she was seen in 2013 either, but it sounds like he must have put his address down for her.

Seriously, if they had just said "Oops, paperwork problems, let's fix it after we get her in a room and make sure she's not dying..." then I wouldn't even have been upset about that.

Again, thank you all for your help. This helps me figure out what to say to the patient advocate. I want to stay focused on where the actual problem was, not what MIGHT have been the issue.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Your experience appears to be tied to a data entry error and perhaps poor communication. But I see no legal action to pursue.
Just to expand on quincy's observation here, it may help to understand two things. First, even if the hospital screwed up at some point by not providing you PHI regarding your child that you were entitled to get under HIPAA (and nothing in your post indicates that to be the case) the HIPAA does not give you a remedy to sue the hospital for the violation. Your sole remedy is to file a complaint with HHS and it is HHS that decides what action, if any, is to be taken against the hospital for the violation.

Second, your daughter would have a right to sue if the hospital's delay in starting treatment of your child amounted to malpractice. But for there to be anything to pursue in a malpractice claim your child would have had to suffer some harm from the delay. If she was provided appropriate treatment once she was admitted and she comes out of it just fine (and I certainly hope that is the outcome) then there is nothing for which to sue.
 

quincy

Senior Member
... Seriously, if they had just said "Oops, paperwork problems, let's fix it after we get her in a room and make sure she's not dying..." then I wouldn't even have been upset about that.

Again, thank you all for your help. This helps me figure out what to say to the patient advocate. I want to stay focused on where the actual problem was, not what MIGHT have been the issue.
I agree with you that what I have bolded above in your post would have been the best and smartest way for the hospital to handle your daughter’s complaint about chest pains when she first arrived in the ER.

I am really happy to hear that your daughter seems fine now. As a parent myself, I am sure you were a bit frantic when your daughter reported having chest pains. You are smart to follow up with her primary care doctor.

We all appreciate the thanks, SiliconDawn, so thank you. I hope all can be resolved with the hospital soon so you never have to experience the same problem again.
 

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