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Ex boyfriend on the birth certificate but now I am concerned he may not be the father

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CaMom31

Junior Member
This is in California.

Ok, I realize I'm taking a risk of some people not having very nice things to say about me, however I am willing to have my faults picked apart for the sake of the child involved for I love her more than life itself and really need to know what the best course of action is in this situation. Therfore I will state the facts and try and hope but don't expect that others will respond accordingly.

In 2003 my ex boyfriend who I had lived with for 5 years at the time was cheating on me. We were staying in a camp ground at the time and he had spilled the juicy details of events I already had suspicions of to a young man who was also staying there. I believe he was from Oregon but I don't know much about him other than his first name. Being angry with the ex I allowed this young man to make advances and we slept together. At the time I had intended to leave the relationship and move on with my 4 year old son who I had sole custody of from another man.

Anyhow, a month later I found out I was pregnant. The thought never crossed my mind that it wasn't my boyfriend's child and I panicked. I didn't want to stay but I didn't want to leave for the child's sake. I ended up staying and trying to work things out with him and when my daughter was born he was put on the birth certificate.

Less than a year after she was born, CPS got involved over an injury my son had sustained and we spent a year fighting the courts to get the children back. When the case was closed out, the judge ordered Joint Custody to me and my boyfriend because we lived in the same home and kept sole custody of my son the way it was.

As my daughter started to get older and her characteristics more defined I noticed things that were inconsistent. We both have blue eyes, she has brown... the guy I had a one nite stand with had brown eyes. Neither of us have a cleft chin, she has a cleft chin.. the guy I slept with also has a cleft chin. One night I decided to tell my boyfriend that I had made a mistake before she was born and that I was afraid she may not be his child. He told me I was just being hurtful and he didn't believe me so I let it go.

We split up in July of 2008 when he threw me out of the house because he found out that I was thinking about leaving. He refused to let me take my daughter and told me since we have joint custody I could not take her from the home she lived in. I insisted I was taking her and he locked me out of the house. When I called the Sherrif's department in Sacramento County, they told me because that was her residence and he still lived there, they couldn't do anything and my best course of action would be to obtain a custody order.

At the time I didn't even know where my son and I were gonna live and I didn't want to lose her in a custody battle due to not having a home for us, so I tried to be as peaceful as possible. I told him once again she may not be his and asked him to at least take a DNA test. He again caled me a liar and refused. I had to move to my hometown an hour and a half away and last November I was in a car accident and my car was totalled. He has not been cooperative at all with me for visitation and if I can't find a way down there he will not bring her to me unless I pay him twice what the gas would cost which I can't afford. When I do have a way to see her, he wants to set the terms and make me sign papers with rules for the visit etc. He now has a girlfriend who lives with him and she dictates these rules.

I have asked him several times to just take a DNA test and he won't. I am on social security and wanted to have her put on my SSI/SSA to help with the cost of care and gas so I can visit with her more. He is adamantly against the idea and still refuses to take a DNA test.

Today he told me he filed for sole physical and legal custody. We have mediation on the 25th. I told him I refuse to agree to Sole custody and that I will be requesting the judge order a DNA test. He informed me that his attorny already told him the courts cannot order the test because I declared him the father on her birth certificate and that it wouldn't matter anyways since he's raised her for 5 years. Mind you I have been perfectly willing all this time to share custody, the only thing I have been unhappy with up to this point is his lack of cooperation when it comes to my right to have her too.

I guess my main questions are:

1) Can I have the court order a DNA test even if he does not want to take one?
2) If the courts order a DNA test and he is not the biological father can he still get Sole Custody of my daughter?
3) Can I be convicted of fraud or entrappment even though at the time of her conception I believed he was the father? (I ask because his gf told me that if I bring this up in court I can go to jail.)

I realize I have made some pretty poor choices that have gotten things where they are at this point but I do not believe I deserve to lose my babygirl just because he and his new girlfriend don't want to deal with me for the next 13 years. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
The child is six? The time to realize you made a mistake was several years ago. You will NOT get him disestablished as daddy. Here is the thing -- you say he cheated on you but apparently YOU also cheated. Your excuse may be that he was doing it first but YOU are the only one who was in a position to know that there was a possibility that he was not daddy.

But again, you will not get him disestablished as daddy. There have been a few court cases and hearings in which he was legally recognized as daddy in addition to him signing the AOP. Even if biologically he is NOT the child's father, he has held himself out in many ways as the child's daddy and the courts will keep him as such due to the fact that he is daddy.

the only person who may have standing to challenge paternity is the man you cheated with who is possibly the biological father. That however would NOT be necessarily remove the legal father from the picture entirely.
 

CaMom31

Junior Member
The child is 5 years old. And yes I realize that I will not be able to de-establish him as a parent and that is not my intention. Also I did not wait till just now to bring this up, I have been telling him since she was 2 1/2 and her physical characteristics started to become more prominant. I am not trying to justify what I did, I know I made a mistake and am no better than him when it comes to being faithful however our misconduct sexually is not the issue here. The issue is that it wasn't until I saw that she didn't look anything like him and more like the other guy that I began to realize that I had made an even bigger mistake in assuming because my boyfriend and I had been together so long and slept together much more often than once he must be her father.

It is not my intent to remove his parental rights at all. But for him to repeatedly deny a DNA test and then turn around and tell me that he is going to take her from me completely and biological father or not, there is nothing I can do about it is just absurd. My conduct and your oppinion of it is not what I came here for. I came here for information on what I can legally do to stop him and his new fiance from taking my daughter from me.

The new fiance is diabetic, she had her tubes tied and cannot have children of her own. Since she has been with my ex she has pretty much taken over the household on everything including making decisions for my daughter. I know she loves her and can appreciate that and this is not a matter of me not wanting another woman in my child's life. My concern after being added to her facebook and seeing how she interracts with her friends regarding "her daughter" really bothers me. Especially now that she has started pushing him to take full custody of my daughter so that they can dictate when, where and how I can have contact with my child.

Biology is just one of the issues, however it is a big one for me for several reasons.

1) If he is not the biological father, her real father has a right to know she exists. I grew up never knowing my real father and finding out the man who raised me the first few years of my life wasn't my father until I was 10. My mother never made any effort to locate my biological dad and at 31 years old I still have no idea who he is. I do not wish that on my child.

2) If he is not the father, a stressful situation such as in a hospital room if God forbid something were to happen, is not the time to find out that you are incompatible with your dying daughter. These things should already be established ahead of time so that immediate care can be provided accordingly.

3) She has a right to know at some point. It is not about how he or I feel. How would anyone feel as an adult to find out Dad knew there was a possibility he wasn't the biological father and refused to take a simple test that would have solved the mystery entirely.

I am fully aware that establishing paternity can open up several cans of worms that may make my life a little more difficult. The reason I haven't pushed this before is every time I've brought it up he has told me if he takes a test and he is not the father I will be charged with fraud because I signed a declaration of paternity when she was born. It wasn't until 6 months ago that I found out this is not necessarily true unless it can be proven I did so with intent to entrap him which I did not.

The reason this keeps coming up is ever since he threw me out he has told me I have no rights to her even though we have a joint custody order. He has even told me since I actually left without her he can claim abandonment. I have told him he can't charge me with abandonment when he threw me out and he just laughs and says I can't prove he threw me out, he however can prove I left. The police department have been utterly useless and just tell me it's a court issue.

It may seem I'm reaching here, and maybe I am. I have tried every possible way to put her stability first and work with him to find a solution that would be good for everyone.

So rather than assume I am trying to de-establish him as a parent, let's work with the facts we have here. What legally can I do to get a DNA test ordered and how does that affect his ability to get sole custody if at all? What reproccusions if any am I looking at facing over the declaration of paternity?
 

Isis1

Senior Member
because too much time has passed, you won't get a court order for DNA testing. why? because the results won't have any bearing on the case.

the actual "dna daddy" (your camping buddy) MIGHT have cause to throw himself into the action as a third party, and request a DNA test. but what would motivate him to do so?

and um, you weren't required by law to leave. so legally, you were not kicked out. not unless you were removed by a court order. so ex is right about that.

but no claim for abandonment. that's a lost cause.
 

Hisbabygirl77

Senior Member
The child is 5 years old. And yes I realize that I will not be able to de-establish him as a parent and that is not my intention. Also I did not wait till just now to bring this up, I have been telling him since she was 2 1/2 and her physical characteristics started to become more prominant. I am not trying to justify what I did, I know I made a mistake and am no better than him when it comes to being faithful however our misconduct sexually is not the issue here. The issue is that it wasn't until I saw that she didn't look anything like him and more like the other guy that I began to realize that I had made an even bigger mistake in assuming because my boyfriend and I had been together so long and slept together much more often than once he must be her father.

It is not my intent to remove his parental rights at all. But for him to repeatedly deny a DNA test and then turn around and tell me that he is going to take her from me completely and biological father or not, there is nothing I can do about it is just absurd. My conduct and your oppinion of it is not what I came here for. I came here for information on what I can legally do to stop him and his new fiance from taking my daughter from me.

The new fiance is diabetic, she had her tubes tied and cannot have children of her own. Since she has been with my ex she has pretty much taken over the household on everything including making decisions for my daughter. I know she loves her and can appreciate that and this is not a matter of me not wanting another woman in my child's life. My concern after being added to her facebook and seeing how she interracts with her friends regarding "her daughter" really bothers me. Especially now that she has started pushing him to take full custody of my daughter so that they can dictate when, where and how I can have contact with my child.

Biology is just one of the issues, however it is a big one for me for several reasons.

1) If he is not the biological father, her real father has a right to know she exists. I grew up never knowing my real father and finding out the man who raised me the first few years of my life wasn't my father until I was 10. My mother never made any effort to locate my biological dad and at 31 years old I still have no idea who he is. I do not wish that on my child.

2) If he is not the father, a stressful situation such as in a hospital room if God forbid something were to happen, is not the time to find out that you are incompatible with your dying daughter. These things should already be established ahead of time so that immediate care can be provided accordingly.

3) She has a right to know at some point. It is not about how he or I feel. How would anyone feel as an adult to find out Dad knew there was a possibility he wasn't the biological father and refused to take a simple test that would have solved the mystery entirely.

I am fully aware that establishing paternity can open up several cans of worms that may make my life a little more difficult. The reason I haven't pushed this before is every time I've brought it up he has told me if he takes a test and he is not the father I will be charged with fraud because I signed a declaration of paternity when she was born. It wasn't until 6 months ago that I found out this is not necessarily true unless it can be proven I did so with intent to entrap him which I did not.

The reason this keeps coming up is ever since he threw me out he has told me I have no rights to her even though we have a joint custody order. He has even told me since I actually left without her he can claim abandonment. I have told him he can't charge me with abandonment when he threw me out and he just laughs and says I can't prove he threw me out, he however can prove I left. The police department have been utterly useless and just tell me it's a court issue.

It may seem I'm reaching here, and maybe I am. I have tried every possible way to put her stability first and work with him to find a solution that would be good for everyone.

So rather than assume I am trying to de-establish him as a parent, let's work with the facts we have here. What legally can I do to get a DNA test ordered and how does that affect his ability to get sole custody if at all? What reproccusions if any am I looking at facing over the declaration of paternity?

Have you thought about asking the "other man" to do a paternity test? You can get the kit and send it in. It wont hold up in court but according to you the only reason you want it is so you and daughter know how the biofather is.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
It is not my intent to remove his parental rights at all. But for him to repeatedly deny a DNA test and then turn around and tell me that he is going to take her from me completely and biological father or not, there is nothing I can do about it is just absurd.
He doesn't have to take a DNA test nor will the court order one at this juncture. That is the point. He can also sue for custody because he is the child's LEGAL father.

My conduct and your oppinion of it is not what I came here for. I came here for information on what I can legally do to stop him and his new fiance from taking my daughter from me.
Win the custody hearing by proving there is not a substantial change in circumstance in the life of the child and, even if there is, that the child's best interests are to remain with you.


1) If he is not the biological father, her real father has a right to know she exists. I grew up never knowing my real father and finding out the man who raised me the first few years of my life wasn't my father until I was 10. My mother never made any effort to locate my biological dad and at 31 years old I still have no idea who he is. I do not wish that on my child.
Then what you do is contact the possible biological father and tell him he may have a child and, if he so chooses, HE can attempt to establish paternity. If he doesn't want to, oh well. The child has a LEGAL father.

2) If he is not the father, a stressful situation such as in a hospital room if God forbid something were to happen, is not the time to find out that you are incompatible with your dying daughter. These things should already be established ahead of time so that immediate care can be provided accordingly.
Now you are being overly dramatic to the point of absurd> Quite frankly not every parent -- biological or not -- will be a match for their child but that doesn't change their parentage.

3) She has a right to know at some point. It is not about how he or I feel. How would anyone feel as an adult to find out Dad knew there was a possibility he wasn't the biological father and refused to take a simple test that would have solved the mystery entirely.
Try facing reality -- how will she like it that you LIED and slept around and caused this issue? Because quite frankly she may feel honored that dad was dad even though mom constantly tried to throw up roadblocks and doubts and have him walk away. He is being a man and quite frankly fighting to be a father and doesn't care about biology. If you do then YOU hunt down the man you had an affair with and maybe he will want to know. Or you be honest with your child when she is an adult and tell her that you cheated on the man she knows as her father and he refused to consent to a DNA test because he was already legally daddy.

I am fully aware that establishing paternity can open up several cans of worms that may make my life a little more difficult. The reason I haven't pushed this before is every time I've brought it up he has told me if he takes a test and he is not the father I will be charged with fraud because I signed a declaration of paternity when she was born. It wasn't until 6 months ago that I found out this is not necessarily true unless it can be proven I did so with intent to entrap him which I did not.
And it doesn't matter. LEGALLY he is daddy and the courts will not disestablish him -- unless of course bio daddy files to establish. And even then he may still remain a psychological parent.

The reason this keeps coming up is ever since he threw me out he has told me I have no rights to her even though we have a joint custody order. He has even told me since I actually left without her he can claim abandonment. I have told him he can't charge me with abandonment when he threw me out and he just laughs and says I can't prove he threw me out, he however can prove I left. The police department have been utterly useless and just tell me it's a court issue.
So why haven't you gone to court and sued for custody? The police department told you to do so. You have joint custody -- okay fine. Now go to court to clarify it.

It may seem I'm reaching here, and maybe I am. I have tried every possible way to put her stability first and work with him to find a solution that would be good for everyone.
No you haven't.

So rather than assume I am trying to de-establish him as a parent, let's work with the facts we have here. What legally can I do to get a DNA test ordered and how does that affect his ability to get sole custody if at all? What reproccusions if any am I looking at facing over the declaration of paternity?
You will NOT get a DNA test ordered. A change in custody will only happen with a substantial change in circumstance for the child and proving best interests. And with the declaration of paternity -- quite frankly not much. But pressing the issue could cause your child a lot of harm. Though it doesn't sound like you care about whta this does to her -- you are more concerned about how YOU feel and what YOU want.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
First you said...

So rather than assume I am trying to de-establish him as a parent, let's work with the facts we have here.
But then you said this....

What legally can I do to get a DNA test ordered and how does that affect his ability to get sole custody if at all? What reproccusions if any am I looking at facing over the declaration of paternity?
If you're being honest, why would it matter? He's still her legal father. You're not trying to prevent him from being her father, right?

Legally YOU can do nothing at all to compel the court to order a DNA test. Possible Dad may have a cause of action.
 

CaMom31

Junior Member
Have you thought about asking the "other man" to do a paternity test? You can get the kit and send it in. It wont hold up in court but according to you the only reason you want it is so you and daughter know how the biofather is.
I have considered this, however finding him is almost like looking for a needle in a haystack without a court order. I don't have his last name. He told me his last name once but it was 6 years ago, I don't remember it. I have called the camp ground and asked if they could look in the records and just give me the last name so I could try and find him but they told me the only people they can release that information to would be law enforcement or the DA. I have spoken to the DA's office and they told me the only way they can request information is if there is a court order established for a paternity investigation.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
I don't understand how ANY woman can ALLOW a person who may not be the father sign the Affidavit of paternity. I find it appalling that, if there was the slightest possibility another man may be biodad, you allowed this situation to occur. NO WAY you should have allowed the current legal dad to become legal dad until you and he had DNA proof. Sorry, Mom, but you and only you knew whether there had been other partners in your life that might possibly be biodad. Legal dad couldn't and wouldn't have been legal dad unless YOU made him so.

How would YOU like YOUR parentage to suddenly be ended at someone's whim? Say, there was a switch at the hospital and dna suddenly proved you were NOT mom? How would you feel if it was ok for YOUR parentage to suddenly be yanked away because of a lie someone else made? The time to fess up and be adamant about other possible dad's was BEFORE you had daughter's dad become legal dad.

He is legal dad, and emotional/psychological dad. That makes him dad more than the dna of some man who is a stranger to your child and has contributed nothing all these years. BTW, you seem so ready to undad dad, are you willing to reimburse him every penny you've taken from him under the pretense of his being biodad, since it appears you failed to provide disclosure right up front? Telling him when kiddo is two or so is way too little, too late.
 
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Hisbabygirl77

Senior Member
I have considered this, however finding him is almost like looking for a needle in a haystack without a court order. I don't have his last name. He told me his last name once but it was 6 years ago, I don't remember it. I have called the camp ground and asked if they could look in the records and just give me the last name so I could try and find him but they told me the only people they can release that information to would be law enforcement or the DA. I have spoken to the DA's office and they told me the only way they can request information is if there is a court order established for a paternity investigation.
The camp ground? Oh I am so gonna bite my lip on this one. Its just to easy.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
I have considered this, however finding him is almost like looking for a needle in a haystack without a court order. I don't have his last name. He told me his last name once but it was 6 years ago, I don't remember it. I have called the camp ground and asked if they could look in the records and just give me the last name so I could try and find him but they told me the only people they can release that information to would be law enforcement or the DA. I have spoken to the DA's office and they told me the only way they can request information is if there is a court order established for a paternity investigation.
Looks like it's a no-go then. :rolleyes:
 

CaMom31

Junior Member
If you're being honest, why would it matter? He's still her legal father. You're not trying to prevent him from being her father, right?
No, I'm not trying to prevent him from being her father. He has had her since we seperated but has constantly told me that even though we have a joint custody order because it was given while we were living together that now that we aren't together anymore I have no rights to her at all. The reason I have not filed earlier is I had no way to get from Modesto to Sacramento to do so and because the joint custody order was filed in Sacramento county any ammendment has to also be filed. Also I was living in a 3 bedroom house with roommates and I have a 10 year old son who resides with me as well. We only had one bedroom. On the first of October we all moved to a 4 bedroom house so now the option of me paying for two rooms has become available. I was intending on filing an amendment to the joint custody order but it has been, once again a matter of finding transportation.

As I said earlier this is just one of the issues. He is also an ex-heroine addict currently on methadone. His fiance is an insulin dependant diabetic. She has needles in the home which is a risk factor since he refuses to go to NA or seek help. He's been on Methadone for the last 8 years. One of the reasons we were having issues was they thought it was time for him to be taken off it and he refused. He intends to stay on maintenance indefinately. He has also told me they cannot afford the insulin for his fiance so she only takes it when she gets really sick but she gets "cranky". It has been my experience with insulin dependant diabetics that if they do not take their medication AS PRESCRIBED they can become psychotic.

He has pretty much told me that since he owns his own home, my daughter has her own room, his grandfather has money for attorneys and his fiance is a preschool teacher that there is nothing I can do to stop him from getting what he wants. Because I know he can provide more for her than I can I haven't ever intended to dispute her residing with him. As I said this is not an issue of de-establishing him as a father. It's excercising my rights as her mother. It was always my intent to request that joint custody remain in effect but to ammend the terms since there are none established. I want her when she's not in school and holidays. I would like to have her more but the matter of distance makes that unreasonable. I am also not willing to give up legal custody because I have a right to make decisions in her life as well.

However since he has now taken it upon himself to decide he is going to just take her completely away from me and "maybe" allow me visitation, I don't see where I have much choice than to counter sue for the same. How do you win against someone who has everything when you are on disability and assistance? As I said, yes it may seem as if I'm reaching here but walking into battle with a butterknife is not going to win against a man holding an oozie.

I believe she would be more angry with me for just laying down in the middle of the road and letting the man remove me from her life. As a child I also grew up without a mother. She always had a million excuses for why she was never there, but it was always because someone "took" me from her. Even if I lose I want to know I have done everything I can to fight for her because that will be an important factor later in her life when she's old enough to understand.

As for him just being a man... tell that to the 10 year old child he raised since birth knowing he wasn't his and now wants nothing at all to do with.
 

CaMom31

Junior Member
I don't understand how ANY woman can ALLOW a person who may not be the father sign the Affidavit of paternity. I find it appalling that, if there was the slightest possibility another man may be biodad, you allowed this situation to occur. NO WAY you should have allowed the current legal dad to become legal dad until you and he had DNA proof. Sorry, Mom, but you and only you knew whether there had been other partners in your life that might possibly be biodad. Legal dad couldn't and wouldn't have been legal dad unless YOU made him so.

How would YOU like YOUR parentage to suddenly be ended at someone's whim? Say, there was a switch at the hospital and dna suddenly proved you were NOT mom? How would you feel if it was ok for YOUR parentage to suddenly be yanked away because of a lie someone else made? The time to fess up and be adamant about other possible dad's was BEFORE you had daughter's dad become legal dad.

He is legal dad, and emotional/psychological dad. That makes him dad more than the dna of some man who is a stranger to your child and has contributed nothing all these years. BTW, you seem so ready to undad dad, are you willing to reimburse him every penny you've taken from him under the pretense of his being biodad, since it appears you failed to provide disclosure right up front? Telling him when kiddo is two or so is way too little, too late.
As I said before. I'm not asking to remove his PARENTAGE! What I am fighting here is the fact that he seems to believe he can just take away MY parentage and he may not even be the biological father and I am 100% her mother. As for reimbursing him? I had $16,000 in back social security right before she was born that all went to the property rent for his house and everything she needed because he was jobless.

And to all the perfect people out there, yes it may seem totally appalling that I slept with someone else with a condom and on the pill and never once thought it might be his child when the man I was sleeping with for years never used protection. Believe it or not, I have been just as surprised as anyone else would be to find she may NOT be his. I could have just never said anything though. I guess that would have been best for everyone to just lie when I KNEW the truth.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
No, I'm not trying to prevent him from being her father. He has had her since we seperated but has constantly told me that even though we have a joint custody order because it was given while we were living together that now that we aren't together anymore I have no rights to her at all.
He is patently incorrect - you absolutely have rights to your child, just as he does.

As I said earlier this is just one of the issues. He is also an ex-heroine addict currently on methadone.
The "ex" part is critical. He is in treatment, obviously. This is actually a point in his favor, not a point against.

His fiance is an insulin dependant diabetic. She has needles in the home which is a risk factor since he refuses to go to NA or seek help. He's been on Methadone for the last 8 years.

Of course she has needles in the home. Do you have any proof whatsoever that he is using? A "what if" won't cut it.

One of the reasons we were having issues was they thought it was time for him to be taken off it and he refused. He intends to stay on maintenance indefinately. He has also told me they cannot afford the insulin for his fiance so she only takes it when she gets really sick but she gets "cranky". It has been my experience with insulin dependant diabetics that if they do not take their medication AS PRESCRIBED they can become psychotic.
A diabetic can develop transient psychosis whether or not their blood glucose is tightly controlled. A severe high, as well as a severe low, can cause problems. I realize this isn't your problem (and even less mine) but you may wish to suggest that she arrange to have the insulin provided at no-cost either directly from the manufacturer or via a free clinic. Both are not only possible but quite common.

He has pretty much told me that since he owns his own home, my daughter has her own room, his grandfather has money for attorneys and his fiance is a preschool teacher that there is nothing I can do to stop him from getting what he wants. Because I know he can provide more for her than I can I haven't ever intended to dispute her residing with him.
This is where I become dubious - it would appear that what you're saying is that had he not told you this and/or told you of his intent to file for custody, you'd be quite fine with him being on the birth certificate.

If it was genuinely about the welfare of the child wouldn't you be more than happy to let him go to court? The court will, after all, try to do what's best for the child regardless of who has the most money etc.

I want her when she's not in school and holidays. I would like to have her more but the matter of distance makes that unreasonable. I am also not willing to give up legal custody because I have a right to make decisions in her life as well.
Your wants and unwillingness don't matter at all. I'm sure he feels the same way.

However since he has now taken it upon himself to decide he is going to just take her completely away from me and "maybe" allow me visitation, I don't see where I have much choice than to counter sue for the same.
Again he will have to show that he has enough reason to modify custody.

How do you win against someone who has everything when you are on disability and assistance?
I don't know. But I do know it's not about "winning" anything - this isn't a game of chess in which the child is the prize.

I believe she would be more angry with me for just laying down in the middle of the road and letting the man remove me from her life. As a child I also grew up without a mother. She always had a million excuses for why she was never there, but it was always because someone "took" me from her. Even if I lose I want to know I have done everything I can to fight for her because that will be an important factor later in her life when she's old enough to understand.
"The man" is HER FATHER.

As for him just being a man... tell that to the 10 year old child he raised since birth knowing he wasn't his and now wants nothing at all to do with.
You said she was 5.

Why is that?
 
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