Execeptions to a magistrates denial to relocate

[ninasaraphina]

What is the name of your state? FLORIDA

Ok, I will make this as brief as possible...
I need to know what to expect when filing an exception to a general magistrate's recommendation to deny me and my 4-year-old son ( in addition to my fiance and our 8-month old)
to move out of state to VA which will be closer to my fiance's family and close to my extended family in Delaware.
The non-custodial parent and I were never married, but we established shared responsibility and set visitation. I went into the trial under the wrong impression.... see, the objection stated that he agreed this move would improve the child's life, however he did not believe I had family in VA or DELAWARE... but in his written objection he admitted that I did have family in Delaware. So I focused my case solely around his invalid and contradictory objection, instead of bringing to court factual documentation of the school system and financial opportunities. (which i have after the fact and hoping to present to the actual circuit judge at the exception hearing).

Well aside from that, I feel that the magistrate abused his discretion and did not evaluate all the factors that needed to be considered for this issue in Florida. He only took 3 minutes after the trial was over to make his decision... he did not even consider the proposed visitation schedule I proposed in order to continue a meaningful relationship between the child and his father... (which is also a factor that needs to be considered) Nor did he take into consideration the relationship between the child and his half-sibling (whom I share with my fiance who has been in the household for 2 years).
Also, He did not allow me to give a closing argument.

I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AT AN EXCEPTION HEARING... THE PROCEDURES AND WHETHER OR NOT I CAN PRESENT ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATIONS TO SUPPORT MY CASE

According to Florida Statute these are the following factors that need to be considered/evaluated when deciding on a relocation decision:
(a)nature, quality, extent of involvement with the parent proposing relocation with the child and the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the childs life.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

(b)the age and development stage of the child, the needs of the child, and the likely impact the relocation wil have on child's physical, educational, and emotional development

(c)The feasibility of preserving the relationship between the nonrelocating parent or other person and the child through substitute arrangements that take into consideration the logistics of contact, access, visitation, and time-sharing, as well as financial circumstances of the parties
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE IN DECISION/RECOMMENDATION (DESPITE ME TESTIFYING TO IT)

(d)Childs preference (TOO YOUNG)

(e) Whether the relocation will enhance the general quality of life for BOTH the parent seeking the relocation AND the child including, but not limited to, financial or emotional benefits or educational opportunites.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

(f) The reasons of each parent for seeking relocation
CONSIDERED

(g) Whether or not move will improve the economic circumstances of the parent seeking relocation.
CONSIDERED -- DID NOT HAVE FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION FOR EVIDENCE

(h)The the relocation is sought in good faith and the extent to which the objecting parent has fulfilled his obligations to the parent seeking relocation (child support is in arrearage)


(i)The career opportunites available to parent seeking relocation
CONSIDERED-- NOT ENOUGH FACTUAL EVIDENCE

(j) History of substance or domestic abuse
NOT APPLICABLE

(K) Any other factors affecting the best interest of the child.What is the name of your state?

 

[CourtClerk]

I've got some questions... (although I think the Master got it right on!)

First of all

Also, He did not allow me to give a closing argument

.
Closing arguments are neither testimony or evidence. You didn't give to give one, I don't see it as particularly necessary.

(a)nature, quality, extent of involvement with the parent proposing relocation with the child and the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the childs life.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

Who is it in VA who is more significant in the child's life than the child's father? You? Sibling? Your new bedwarmer? Your extended family? Who in that list is more important than your child's DADDY.

(c)The feasibility of preserving the relationship between the nonrelocating parent or other person and the child through substitute arrangements that take into consideration the logistics of contact, access, visitation, and time-sharing, as well as financial circumstances of the parties
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE IN DECISION/RECOMMENDATION (DESPITE ME TESTIFYING TO IT)

I'm wondering why it is not feasible for you to leave the child in FL with the child's father and YOU have the visitation schedule. If it's good enough for dad, then SURELY it's good enough for you to have? I thought not.

(e) Whether the relocation will enhance the general quality of life for BOTH the parent seeking the relocation AND the child including, but not limited to, financial or emotional benefits or educational opportunites.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

What line of work are you in? Will you make more money in VA (adjustments for cost of living included)?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? FLORIDA

Ok, I will make this as brief as possible...
I need to know what to expect when filing an exception to a general magistrate's recommendation to deny me and my 4-year-old son ( in addition to my fiance and our 8-month old)
to move out of state to VA which will be closer to my fiance's family and close to my extended family in Delaware.

A few things on just this statement -- Your fiance is NOT family to your child. Your fiance's family is NOT family to your child. Family to your child is you, child's dad and your family and his family. NOT anyone else.

Also, the magistrate did not deny YOU the right to move. You can still move. He cannot legally infringe upon YOUR right to move. So try again.

He can however state that the child cannot move.

 

[ninasaraphina]

Well geez, I didnt join this forum to be pounced on by other members...
Apparently I did not explain my situation correctly enough for any reasonable person to understand.

But I appreciate the devil's advocacy going on here, and I will take that into consideration when I organize my case.

The father moved out of the residence when the child was 2... he moved away 600 miles from his child.... he left me and his child without a vehicle and did not pay any type of child support until I petitioned for it... and thus a visitation was established for him to travel 600 miles from where he was once a month and have the child for a week every month.... and he did not even exercise that!
so now when he moved closer, I petitioned the court so he can see his son more frequently... not HIM... I ALWAYS took the initiative to file for a better visitation schedule to see his son.
I proposed a very reasonable schedule that the magistrate did not even take a look at or even gave a time of day...which is very important, considering that the main issue was that the father would have less contact....

In addition.... my so called "bedwarmer" as you so rudely stated.... has been the "bread-winner" and has made sure my son and I have everything we need and more... when the father was non-existent in the household for 2 years. So Im pretty sure that my "bed-warmer"... (more like a great provider) is a very important figure in the child's life.

Just because someone is your blood, does not make them Family....

 

[Rushia]

Well geez, I didnt join this forum to be pounced on by other members...
Apparently I did not explain my situation correctly enough for any reasonable person to understand.

But I appreciate the devil's advocacy going on here, and I will take that into consideration when I organize my case.

The father moved out of the residence when the child was 2... he moved away 600 miles from his child.... he left me and his child without a vehicle and did not pay any type of child support until I petitioned for it... and thus a visitation was established for him to travel 600 miles from where he was once a month and have the child for a week every month.... and he did not even exercise that!
so now when he moved closer, I petitioned the court so he can see his son more frequently... not HIM... I ALWAYS took the initiative to file for a better visitation schedule to see his son.
I proposed a very reasonable schedule that the magistrate did not even take a look at or even gave a time of day...which is very important, considering that the main issue was that the father would have less contact....

In addition.... my so called "bedwarmer" as you so rudely stated.... has been the "bread-winner" and has made sure my son and I have everything we need and more... when the father was non-existent in the household for 2 years. So Im pretty sure that my "bed-warmer"... (more like a great provider) is a very important figure in the child's life.

Just because someone is your blood, does not make them Family....

It's nice that your "bedwarmer" is a great provider, however he is still a LEGAL stranger and thus has no bearing on your child.

 

[profmum]

.

Just because someone is your blood, does not make them Family....

Except in the eyes of the law.. where blood is thicker than a bed warmer. You can appeal the decision, but a magistrate have leeway in making these decisions. You do not know what the magistrate considered in making his decision..probably all of the factors you mention and that he is required to consider. Your best bet is to try and continue to see if Dad will agree for the relocation.
Since you have experience in family court before you had a second child with your boyfriend who wanted to move etc, I am surprised that you would think a relocation would not be contested or automatically granted. You have two kids, two different fathers, your choices.

 

[ninasaraphina]

Are you all basing this off of your personal opinion? or the law?... because if this is off your personal opinion, Im in the wrong forum.

Stick to the law.... not your personal feelings.

 

[Ohiogal]

Well geez, I didnt join this forum to be pounced on by other members...
Apparently I did not explain my situation correctly enough for any reasonable person to understand.

You don't get it.

But I appreciate the devil's advocacy going on here, and I will take that into consideration when I organize my case.

We are pointing out the law.

The father moved out of the residence when the child was 2... he moved away 600 miles from his child.... he left me and his child without a vehicle and did not pay any type of child support until I petitioned for it...

When was he legally adjudicated to be daddy? Until there is a child support order he doesn't owe you a dime by the way. So he did the correct thing of not paying until he got an order.

and thus a visitation was established for him to travel 600 miles from where he was once a month and have the child for a week every month.... and he did not even exercise that!

Visitation is NOT established automatically at the same time as child support. One of the parties would have had to motion for it.

so now when he moved closer, I petitioned the court so he can see his son more frequently... not HIM... I ALWAYS took the initiative to file for a better visitation schedule to see his son.

That was sweet of you.

I proposed a very reasonable schedule that the magistrate did not even take a look at or even gave a time of day...which is very important, considering that the main issue was that the father would have less contact....

Did you testify to the proposal? How do you know that the magistrate did not even look at it?

In addition.... my so called "bedwarmer" as you so rudely stated....

Not rude -- true. Your bedwarmer is LEGALLY NOTHING to the child.

has been the "bread-winner" and has made sure my son and I have everything we need and more... when the father was non-existent in the household for 2 years.

That is nice. Why don't you get off your duff and get a job? What happens when boyfriend DUMPS you? Decides he doesn't want to take care of your child any longer? The father is paying child support, correct? The child's father is visiting correct? Hence, the father is playing a role and has NOT been non-existent.

So Im pretty sure that my "bed-warmer"... (more like a great provider) is a very important figure in the child's life.

You would be wrong. LEGALLY, your bedwarmer is nothing. The courts do NOT look at bedwarmers -- they look at the parents. How is your situation improving with the move? Are you going to be working a job earning substantially more money? Or are you going to be letting boyfriend pay the way there as well?

Just because someone is your blood, does not make them Family...

True but legally is the issue. And legally, your bedwarmer, fmate, lover, paramour, friend with benefits, sugar daddy or whatever you call him is NOTHING to the child. NOTHING at all. And the court understands this and has stated that the child's FATHER matters. Doesn't matter your opinion. Or rather, it could be because of your opinion, that the Courts determined that the child is better with daddy. So, YOU most certainly CAN move, but the child cannot.

 

[LdiJ]

Well geez, I didnt join this forum to be pounced on by other members...
Apparently I did not explain my situation correctly enough for any reasonable person to understand.

But I appreciate the devil's advocacy going on here, and I will take that into consideration when I organize my case.

The father moved out of the residence when the child was 2... he moved away 600 miles from his child.... he left me and his child without a vehicle and did not pay any type of child support until I petitioned for it... and thus a visitation was established for him to travel 600 miles from where he was once a month and have the child for a week every month.... and he did not even exercise that!
so now when he moved closer, I petitioned the court so he can see his son more frequently... not HIM... I ALWAYS took the initiative to file for a better visitation schedule to see his son.
I proposed a very reasonable schedule that the magistrate did not even take a look at or even gave a time of day...which is very important, considering that the main issue was that the father would have less contact....

In addition.... my so called "bedwarmer" as you so rudely stated.... has been the "bread-winner" and has made sure my son and I have everything we need and more... when the father was non-existent in the household for 2 years. So Im pretty sure that my "bed-warmer"... (more like a great provider) is a very important figure in the child's life.

Just because someone is your blood, does not make them Family....

Hon, from an emotional and even perhaps moral standpoint the bolded portion is completely correct.

However, from a legal standpoint its not. When you get to court, all that matters is the legal standpoint.

Now, that doesn't mean that the sitting judge won't disagree with the magistrate's decision, but it also means that the sitting judge may agree with the magistrate. You absolutely have the legal right to try, and therefore should try.

 

[Ohiogal]

Are you all basing this off of your personal opinion? or the law?... because if this is off your personal opinion, Im in the wrong forum.

Stick to the law.... not your personal feelings.

It is the law. The only one spouting personal feelings quite frankly is YOU.

 

[ninasaraphina]

a)nature, quality, extent of involvement with the parent proposing relocation with the child and the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the childs life.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

Notice it says..."other significant persons in the child's life"... I dont know what state law you are basing your opinions from.... but this is FLORIDA statute I am quoting.... NOWHERE does it say "family only".... it evens says..."half-sibling".... my fiancee is a very significant person in my son's life.

 

[Rushia]

a)nature, quality, extent of involvement with the parent proposing relocation with the child and the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the childs life.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

Notice it says..."other significant persons in the child's life"... I dont know what state law you are basing your opinions from.... but this is FLORIDA statute I am quoting.... NOWHERE does it say "family only".... it evens says..."half-sibling".... my fiancee is a very significant person in my son's life.

It doesn't matter how significant he is. Your childs father will always come before your fiance. Your fiance will NEVER have the right to make a decision regarding your child. LEGALLY he is nothing to your child and never will be.

 

[Ohiogal]

a)nature, quality, extent of involvement with the parent proposing relocation with the child and the nonrelocating parent, other persons, siblings, half-siblings, and other significant persons in the childs life.
DID NOT CONSIDER/EVALUATE

Notice it says..."other significant persons in the child's life"... I dont know what state law you are basing your opinions from.... but this is FLORIDA statute I am quoting.... NOWHERE does it say "family only".... it evens says..."half-sibling".... my fiancee is a very significant person in my son's life.

Yes your fiance very well may be. Quite frankly, however, it deals with PARENTS having superior rights to anyone else. So it starts with the parents. And goes from there. Does dad have other children? Does dad have a girlfriend? Does dad have family in the area? Does your child have daycare/friends/playmates/doctors in the area of FLorida? You do NOT define who the significant people are. You don't have that right. The court does. And your fiance's family are NOT significant people in the child's life. Your fiance is NOT more important than the child's father in the child's life. And that seems to be your main argument. Which is why you lost. The court may believe you are playing musical fathers.

Oh and by the way -- I ask about dad's girlfriend because dad's girlfriend is just as important to the child as your fiance. And your fiance's family.

 

[ninasaraphina]

Actually.... that was not the reason why I lost the case... I lost the case because I did not provide any documentation showing that the schools are better in VA than FLORIDA.... which I didnt think to bring because I was basing my argument on the fathers objection. But now I have those documents that clearly have statistical reports of pass/fail elementary schools... and Virginia is better.
Also, I did not have documents that proved Virgina has better employment. But I do real estate and I own a LLC and I was just looking to EXPAND my business to work in two states ... not necessarily saying Virginia has better real estate ... it just allows me to operate and earn more revenue.

As I stated earlier, I was basing my argument around the father's objection being contradictory... HE AGREED THE MOVE WOULD IMPROVE THE GENERAL QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE CHILD.... but he said he didnt believe I had family in Delaware and Virginia.... BUT in his written statement, he clearly stated and acknowledged that I had family in DE... which discredited his whole argument.

He is a very vindictive person and his argument is vindictive. He has a grudge against me breaking up with him.... He was even held in contempt of court with this case!



I wrote this forum to get advice on what to expect in a exception hearing and the procedures... I am still waiting on that answer, if anyone knows.

Thanks

 

[Just Blue]

Are you all basing this off of your personal opinion? or the law?... because if this is off your personal opinion, Im in the wrong forum.

Stick to the law.... not your personal feelings.

All of the answers you have received have been based on the LAW in your state. You even had advice from a site verified attorney.