Father has no room

[>Charlotte<]

And why not? You're really not giving any reason for why it's not possible to motion the court for this.

Yes, I did. I said "she is not going to be able to go back and retroactively tweak the court order to her advantage for every miniscule thing she doesn't like."

I'm not quite sure that I understand your post. If you are talking about my parenting agreement, it is just that. A parenting agreement that my ex and I came to in mediation and signed and adopted as an order of the court. I never have implied that mediation and having the judge rule on something are the same thing.

Yes. Exactly. It is an agreement between you and your ex. It was not something ordered by a judge. If it's something both parents agree to, a judge is going to sign off on it, within reason. That's a far cry from both parents being in disagreement on an issue and the judge having to make a decision--which is the case for the OP.

You insist on comparing your case to the OP's. Do you really think the father is going to consent to an agreement that states he must change the way his household is arranged on the weekends he has visitation? No, OP would have to go before a judge, say she doesn't like it, and ask him to change it. And. For the last time. THAT. IS. NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, I did. I said "she is not going to be able to go back and retroactively tweak the court order to her advantage for every miniscule thing she doesn't like."

While I don't disagree with you, I have to point out that its not guaranteed that a judge would consider this to be miniscule. I am not sure that I agree that its miniscule. I am not at all sure that a judge would agree with her, and think that its likely that a judge would not, but I can't state with absolute certainty that a judge would not.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I can't state with absolute certainty that a judge would not.

I understand what you mean. Admittedly, I also can't say with absolute certainty what a judge would do in this case. I also can't say with absolute certainty that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, but I'll bet just about everything I have to bet that it does. So, I'm comfortable sticking with "not gonna happen."

 

[Momma_of_3]

Since we're bringing up old memories....

When my parents split, my dad literally lived in a tent for the first month or two. I'll tell you what, I love camping! I absolutely loved camping out there with my dad, I wouldn't have traded it for anything. You think the kids care that they have to sleep on the floor? If they do care and whine about it, perhaps they are a little too spoiled. Honestly sleeping on the floor is a small price to pay for a child to have quality time with their father. The kids aren't going to regret it. Chill out and accept the fact that some people have rough times and can't always afford a huge house. This is no excuse to keep a child from their father, trying to do so is irresponsible and a horrible thing to do.

Ummm, I NEVER said I wanted to KEEP them from him! Thank YOU!

 

[TCool]

Ummm, I NEVER said I wanted to KEEP them from him! Thank YOU!

I should've mentioned with my first post that nothing I say is legal advice. Forgot that, just wanted to get it out of the way.

You said you don't think he has enough room for another night of visitation with the kids. So, is something different on this new night? Is there some reason that he has adequate space on the nights he already has but not the extra night he wants? So, you are going to tell me that you are bothered so much by this that they can't stay an extra night, but you're not bothered by the nights he already has?

Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I don't want to offend you or anything. But from what you've written so far it just sounds like you are just fishing for excuses to keep him from having an extra night. What is so bad about the kids sleeping on the floor anyway?

 

[fairisfair]

I don't think she was asking how to retroactively enforce the children having a place to sleep... Obviously that's not even possible. The days have passed, there is only moving forward.

I am by no means comparing my case to the OP's. You are though. I'm simply offering it to show that what she's looking for IS possible. You are continually saying its not possible never gonna happen... on and on. If it wasn't possible it wouldn't have happened in another case, that case just happens to be mine. You really think my ex agreed on this in the first place? Truth be told, we agree on nothing, even with our signed parenting agreement... I could say that oranges are a fruit and he would insist they are a vegetable until he died. Do I think that a parent will come to an agreement that is in the best interest of his children.... I'm gonna have to go with yes on that. Why... oh yeah lemme think... because it happened in my case and pretty much any other case that went to mediation and or before a judge. People don't electively go into mediation and pay hundreds of dollars when they are already in agreement on things. @@ Do you think I just came up with this stipulation about the children having their own seperate room because I felt like I needed to spend more money on a lawyer and mediatior and my ex thought that sounded like double fun? Yeah I don't think so. He wasn't providing an appropriate sleeping area and wanted overnights. We went to mediation... we agreed that for overnights he would need to provide a seperate bedroom for the children. WOW shocking, it can happen and parents can think of their children first and change their living arrangements. IT. DOES. HAPPEN.

As far as going before a judge really... it's all about presenting your case. If she can present a reasonable case for WHY her children should be provided adequate sleeping arrangements during overnight parenting time and show that the NCP is not providing appropriate sleeping area, if she can get a special adovcate on her side, THE JUDGE WILL LISTEN. It's not like we're talking about "Well I don't really like that he dresses them in blue jeans on saturdays and shorts on Sundays." That's petty, asking that your children are provided an appropriate sleeping enviornment during overnight parenting is not petty.

I'd appreciate if you stop talking down to me by using capital letters and periods in between words. It doesn't make what your are saying anymore meaningful to me.

Obviously you just aren't getting it,

If she and her ex agree to have something in the parenting plan, and it is not illegal or in some way harmful to the child. then most likely it will BE in the parenting plan. Like what you have in yours. What you BOTH agreed to.

However, chances of her going to court to petition a court for an order that a child must have his/her own bedroom, against the protest of her ex, and prevailing, is a whit better than zero.

And I base that solely on the possibility of insanity like the Anna Nicole Judge gave us all a taste of.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I am by no means comparing my case to the OP's.

You're saying it worked for you, therefore it can work for the OP? And that's not comparing your case to the OP's? I'll stop "talking down to you" when you stop being deliberately obtuse.

You really think my ex agreed on this in the first place?

All I know is, he eventually did agree. Which is why you got it. How long do you want to keep going in circles with this?

Why... oh yeah lemme think... because it happened in my case

But you're not comparing your case to the OP's case. Right?

As far as going before a judge really... it's all about presenting your case. If she can present a reasonable case...if she can get a special adovcate on her side, THE JUDGE WILL LISTEN.

Aha! Now you're getting to my point! She'll have to get the ex to agree, or get a judge to order him to. The initial responses were about why that's probably not likely. Thanks for catching up.

asking that your children are provided an appropriate sleeping enviornment during overnight parenting is not petty.

No, it's not. The key here is going to be the definition of "appropriate". I think the children having to sleep on the floor is no big deal. So do most of the other posters. We think a judge will agree.

Okay, how about this. I'll agree with you, and advise the OP accordingly.

Momma_of_3: If your ex won't agree to get a bigger place so your children won't have to sleep on the floor, you need to get him to sign an agreement that he needs to get a bigger place so your children won't have to sleep on the floor.

 

[Ohiogal]

I am by no means comparing my case to the OP's. You are though. I'm simply offering it to show that what she's looking for IS possible.

Which happened by agreement BEFORE an issue came up. Your situation is VASTLY different and therefore IRRELEVANT! QUIT POSTING.

If it wasn't possible it wouldn't have happened in another case, that case just happens to be mine.

Which was an agreement and not you motioning and your ex fighting it.

You really think my ex agreed on this in the first place? Truth be told, we agree on nothing, even with our signed parenting agreement... I could say that oranges are a fruit and he would insist they are a vegetable until he died. Do I think that a parent will come to an agreement that is in the best interest of his children.... I'm gonna have to go with yes on that

Then you are an idiot. Because not every parent is going to come to an agreement that YOU believe is in the best interest of the children. I note you say HIS children. So you are either sexist or again talking about your miniscule case. WHICH IS IRRELEVANT.

Why... oh yeah lemme think... because it happened in my case and pretty much any other case that went to mediation and or before a judge.

Quite frankly you are full of it. It does not happen in pretty much any other case that went to mediation or before a judge.

People don't electively go into mediation and pay hundreds of dollars when they are already in agreement on things. @@ Do you think I just came up with this stipulation about the children having their own seperate room because I felt like I needed to spend more money on a lawyer and mediatior and my ex thought that sounded like double fun? Yeah I don't think so. He wasn't providing an appropriate sleeping area and wanted overnights. We went to mediation... we agreed that for overnights he would need to provide a seperate bedroom for the children. WOW shocking, it can happen and parents can think of their children first and change their living arrangements. IT. DOES. HAPPEN.

AND NO WHERE IN THIS THREAD DID OP SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MEDIATION. It is NOT something that a judge is going to order without evidence that is harmful to the children not to have a separate bedroom.

As far as going before a judge really... it's all about presenting your case. If she can present a reasonable case for WHY her children should be provided adequate sleeping arrangements during overnight parenting time and show that the NCP is not providing appropriate sleeping area, if she can get a special adovcate on her side, THE JUDGE WILL LISTEN. It's not like we're talking about "Well I don't really like that he dresses them in blue jeans on saturdays and shorts on Sundays." That's petty, asking that your children are provided an appropriate sleeping enviornment during overnight parenting is not petty.

I'd appreciate if you stop talking down to me by using capital letters and periods in between words. It doesn't make what your are saying anymore meaningful to me.

NOTHING you have wasted your time to post is relevant. ON ANY THREAD THAT YOU HAVE POSTED ON, except your own.

 

[BL_DAD]

Ummm, I NEVER said I wanted to KEEP them from him! Thank YOU!

Except....you did. Because you said you didn't want them to go over extra nights because they don't have a bed to sleep in. So.....you do want to keep them from him on some nights.

Look, my oldest has to sleep on my couch when she comes to see me. Do I like this? No, as soon as I get some money, she'll have a bed of her own. But I'm her dad, and she wants to see me as much as I want to see her. I can't afford a room of her own right now, so I give her as much space of her own as I can. You don't know what your ex does in his own home and as long as he's not beating your kids.....you'd probably do best to not tick a judge off by arguing about it and keep your business to yourself.

 

[amberlea434]

Geesh, lady, give the guy a break. If he had to downgrade his living arrangements, it sounds like he can't afford more than what he has. How 'bout you give him back the child support he pays you so he can afford a house with another room if it's that big of a deal.

 

[wileybunch]

This is really quite sad. Hits too close to home. My husband is a great father. Not perfect, but most kids would be glad to have him for a dad. When his ex screwed around and broke up the marriage and he agreed to pay her more than the already staggering CS amount for 4 kids, he got to move into a small apt in a not as nice part of town as the house payment he was still helping her make so the kids could live in the same style they'd been in. Mom turned around and used his apt against him, not through the courts, but with the kids directly so the 2 older kids (11/14) felt it was beneath them to go his apt. The 2 younger ones (4/9) loved it anyway.

Why is it that so many ppl have fond memories of sleepovers, bunking together with their parents in hotel rooms on vacation, siblings choosing to sleep on the floor of a sibling's room instead of their own, even buying RVs and travel trailers to have togetherness, etc., but CPs will make a big fat deal of the sleeping arrangements with their ex and put ideas into the kids heads?

CPs need to realize that they're planting self hate into the kids while they're at it making the kids think dad doesn't care, they're not good enough, etc.

Whew, this brought up some bad memories! I hate when CPs use home court advantage like this!

 

[LdiJ]

This is really quite sad. Hits too close to home. My husband is a great father. Not perfect, but most kids would be glad to have him for a dad. When his ex screwed around and broke up the marriage and he agreed to pay her more than the already staggering CS amount for 4 kids, he got to move into a small apt in a not as nice part of town as the house payment he was still helping her make so the kids could live in the same style they'd been in. Mom turned around and used his apt against him, not through the courts, but with the kids directly so the 2 older kids (11/14) felt it was beneath them to go his apt. The 2 younger ones (4/9) loved it anyway.

Why is it that so many ppl have fond memories of sleepovers, bunking together with their parents in hotel rooms on vacation, siblings choosing to sleep on the floor of a sibling's room instead of their own, even buying RVs and travel trailers to have togetherness, etc., but CPs will make a big fat deal of the sleeping arrangements with their ex and put ideas into the kids heads?

CPs need to realize that they're planting self hate into the kids while they're at it making the kids think dad doesn't care, they're not good enough, etc.

Whew, this brought up some bad memories! I hate when CPs use home court advantage like this!

I agree with you in some ways, and disagree with you in others. I have fond memories myself.

On school nights I think that a child needs a place to sleep were they can truly get a solid night's sleep without interruption. However that also doesn't have to be totally traditional either. Two sets of bunk beds so that 4 kids can sleep in one room works fine as long as there is no real potential for inappropriateness to go on.

On weekends and holidays I think that basically anything goes as long as the kids are happy and again, there is no real potential for anything inappropriate to go on.

I don't think that unrelated boys and girls should be sharing sleeping space once puberty hits. There is too much room for tragedy in that scenario.

 

[wileybunch]

I agree with you in some ways, and disagree with you in others. I have fond memories myself.

On school nights I think that a child needs a place to sleep were they can truly get a solid night's sleep without interruption. However that also doesn't have to be totally traditional either. Two sets of bunk beds so that 4 kids can sleep in one room works fine as long as there is no real potential for inappropriateness to go on.

On weekends and holidays I think that basically anything goes as long as the kids are happy and again, there is no real potential for anything inappropriate to go on.

I don't think that unrelated boys and girls should be sharing sleeping space once puberty hits. There is too much room for tragedy in that scenario.

I didn't comment on these other scenarios, but I also think there are "ideal" situations for those and not necessarily ones where one parent should be dictating to the other.

In this case, OP said dad has visitation so wasn't envisioning a shared custody situation, more weekends, holidays, etc. and these are their own kids sharing a space so I don't think she's worried about their kids together or that sort of safety issue, rather, it seems more like the typical situation where Mom wants the kids to feel slighted over the sleeping arrangements, looking for trouble where there isn't any.

While it is ideal for kids to have their own space in some ways (but not in others), it is by no means any sort of a right for children that they not share a room with siblings. Mom could very well find herself in a situation where her kids need to share close quarters. Would she want Dad blocking her access to the kids in that case?

 

[StampGirl]

Regardless of my feelings, opinions etc.the agreement that my daughters father and I have stipulates that he is to provide a seperate bedroom for our daughter for ournights. It's been signed and entered in the court as an order. So obviously not a waste of time/money. If it's truely a concern of hers I'm sure she can motion the court. (PS you don't need an attorney to do this, you can probably visit your counties website and they may have a self help area, or the clerk can provide you with documents needed to file a motion of the court.) Maybe a judge will recomend mediation and they can come to an agreement of some sort. I'm not a lawyer or any other legal professional but to me from the situation she stated she seems to have a leg to stand on.

So if you by any chance either an Act of God or otherwise, lose your house and you have to move to a smaller one (hotel etc for awhile), THEN your Ex gets custody of the kids because YOU don't have a seperate room for each child????

Thats absurd!!! Maybe I can possibly see it for ONE child but for more than that???? LOL

I also have 3 kids OP. Their dad fell on some hard times financially and moved to a one bedroom apartment. The kids slept on a sofa bed and other couch for almost 2yrs when they visited him. Not a big deal. Sheesh.

Get over it.