FILING DEADLINES, forward or backward?

[anabanana]

What is the name of your state? FL

The Middle District of FL in the BK court is pretty much all electronic by now so in the Rules there is instruction for how to file after-hours if the ECF is down, but there's no instruction in there for making a regular paper filing.

What happens if your filing deadline is on a weekend or holiday? We've got a three day weekend here, and my deadline would be today. I'd be surprised if the court would take time away from me and somehow require me to file early, but if it's not filed until Tuesday, well, that would technically be late.

But this isn't in the rules anymore. Any ideas where I could find the authority on this?

 

[Rhubarb297]

What is the name of your state? FL

The Middle District of FL in the BK court is pretty much all electronic by now so in the Rules there is instruction for how to file after-hours if the ECF is down, but there's no instruction in there for making a regular paper filing.

What happens if your filing deadline is on a weekend or holiday? We've got a three day weekend here, and my deadline would be today. I'd be surprised if the court would take time away from me and somehow require me to file early, but if it's not filed until Tuesday, well, that would technically be late.

But this isn't in the rules anymore. Any ideas where I could find the authority on this?

I can only speak to Indiana rules and the rule is if a deadline falls on the weekend or holiday, the deadline is moved to the next business day.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

I can only speak to Indiana rules and the rule is if a deadline falls on the weekend or holiday, the deadline is moved to the next business day.

My response:

Why don't you read, Dufus? The writer doesn't want to know about Indiana law. Learn to read, idiot stick.

Don't listen to Rhubarb - - he's a complete waste of time and DNA.

IAAL

 

[meganproser]

>>The Middle District of FL in the BK court is pretty much all electronic by now so in the Rules there is instruction for how to file after-hours if the ECF is down, but there's no instruction in there for making a regular paper filing.

Are you a registered electronic filer? Once you are registered, the court won't usually accept a paper filing from you and I can't imagine why you would want to send them one.

If you are not registered, you will be following the usual paper filing rules.

The ECF has a help desk for questions such as this. You can email or call them. It takes each court a while to get all of the possible scenarios into their handbook and they only know information is missing when someone takes the time to tell them.

When you find the answer to this please come back and post it for us.

 

[anabanana]

Funny how it all works out...

In case anyone else cares, in the FRBP it's rule 8006, but it's Rule 6 in FRCP.

Basically, the filing date for TRADITIONAL FILERS rolls over to the next business day. If your total period from the date of the order or other originating event (which sets your filing clock ticking) is less than eight days, the weekends and holidays don't count. Otherwise, they DO, but if it actually ends on one of those days, you get the rollover.

But BEWARE, smarty pants pro se filers!! In the BK Court, there is an after-hours fax filing mechanism that electronic filers must use if the ECF system appears to be down, and traditional filers MAY use that system, if they choose. I was fine with FedEx-ing the documents up there on Monday for Tuesday delivery.

But, oh, clever girl, I thought that convenient little after-hours fax system might come in mighty handy for some future NON-weekend deadline, so I went ahead and got a fax machine, and after wrangling with it for a while, I finally got the thing working and went ahead and sent the cover page on Sunday.

But what a retard. The court treats the document now as filed on Sunday, rather than Tuesday. Since it wasn't technically DUE until Tuesday, it's not late, but I just inadvertently chopped two days off the 10 days I would have had to file my designation of record.

That's not likely to be a make or break situation, but I never want to give time AWAY. I guess if something comes up and I can't put everything together, I will have to consider myself legally Darwinized at my own hand...

 

[meganproser]

Thank you for sharing that ana! Do you mind telling us how you came by the information? I see you found the applicable rule, but how did you find it?

>>But BEWARE, smarty pants pro se filers!! In the BK Court, there is an after-hours fax filing mechanism that electronic filers must use if the ECF system appears to be down, and traditional filers MAY use that system, if they choose.

I think this must be specific to your particular court. I’ve never seen a “fax option” before. Sigh, so many different courts, so bizarre that they can’t just use ONE filing method.

>>it's not late, but I just inadvertently chopped two days off the 10 days I would have had to file my designation of record.

LMAO, but really, I hope you can still get it all done in time. Why don’t you apply to use the ECF system? You would save a lot of money in paper and postage. Good luck!

 

[anabanana]

I found it in the regular rules of BK procedure and in the FRAP, but it wasn't in our local rules.

I haven't been able to register for ECF before. They only did the trainings in one location quite far from me, and it took a half day, and most of it wouldn't have applied to me, since I'm not a lawyer and I was only on the one case I was objecting to.

And given what I just learned, I don't think it would be in my interests anyway! I got the fax machine, so I CAN use that system if I want, but I'm not obligated to. I wouldn't want to lose any more free weekends!

But BTW, they do have fax filing elsewhere also, including Vermont. It's supposed to be used if the ECF is experiencing technical difficulties, but whether or not traditional filers may use it varies a bit, evidently.

 

[Florid-aise]

I would have to dig a little harder and spend too much of my valuable time to do so, but I seem to remember that an advance phone call to the clerk would be sufficient to give notice to the night security at the court building proper and that security could receive filings in order to make deadlines.

 

[meganproser]

Ana: Yes, but in Vermont, you have to have prior oral or written permission from the court to fax something.

The ECF is rarely out of service and if you miss a filing deadline because ECF is out, you can apply to the court for relief.

Florid: I think you can still leave filings with courthouse security BUT since 9-11 there can be problems with this. As I understand it, the after hours staff may not have the ability to turn on the x-ray thing and they don’t want you leaving any package in the building that has not been screened. Then you have to resort to all kinds of begging and pleading with the guard to make an exception and it’s not pretty… at least I’ve HEARD about such situations.

I’m sure policy differs greatly from one place to another.

 

[meganproser]

>>found it in the regular rules of BK procedure and in the FRAP, but it wasn't in our local rules.

Figures!

>>I haven't been able to register for ECF before. They only did the trainings in one location quite far from me, and it took a half day, and most of it wouldn't have applied to me, since I'm not a lawyer and I was only on the one case I was objecting to.

Trainings? Once the system has been in use a while I think most of the courts go to the on line tutorial for new users. If it's been a while since you asked about it, you may want to check on the current requirements.

>>And given what I just learned, I don't think it would be in my interests anyway! I got the fax machine, so I CAN use that system if I want, but I'm not obligated to. I wouldn't want to lose any more free weekends!

You don't lose any time, you GAIN considerable time. The time is still based on WORKING days. The difference is, instead of having something in by the close of business on the day it's due, you have till midnight to file it!

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Megan,

Security in a court house is the Sherriffs office. It is not their job to insure something gets filed.

Poster,......Please read this link. There is a reason you cannot use ECF. It is for attorney's.

http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html

 

[meganproser]

>>Security in a court house is the Sherriffs office. It is not their job to insure something gets filed.

Many courts have provisions in their filing rules for after hour filing. They tell you to contact the clerk and make arrangements to drop the filing off after hours. Some courts have a drop box INSIDE the lobby. The thing is, unless security is expecting a visitor, you can't get INSIDE to use the drop box. So you have to make arrangements but it is done in a number of places.

>>Poster,......Please read this link. There is a reason you cannot use ECF. It is for attorney's.

For the purpose of ECF, a pro se party IS THE ATTORNEY OF RECORD on his own case.

Sheesh, all I had to do was put pro se ECF into google and lots of links came up.

Yikes, the Eastern District of CA just went on line! Here is their pro se policy as of 1-3-05. A Pro Se Party can get permission from the judge to go on line. Once this court gets things running smoothly, they will allow any pro se who can operate a pc to do ECF.

“Any person appearing pro se may not utilize electronic filing except with the permission of the assigned judge. Pro se litigants, whether or not their litigation is assigned as a pro se case ("PS), shall file and serve paper documents as required by applicable rules of civil or criminal procedure, or the local rules of this district. "

I just don't have time to go searching throught the rules of every district court to prove this to you and perhaps ALL district courts do NOT allow Pro Se Parties use of ECF, but believe me, MANY DO.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

>>Poster,......Please read this link. There is a reason you cannot use ECF. It is for attorney's.

For the purpose of ECF, a pro se party IS THE ATTORNEY OF RECORD on his own case. For the record, Each court determines to whom filing logins and passwords are issued. At the present time, courts are providing document filing access principally to attorneys and trustees, although some courts are also providing access to claim filers. I repeat "SOME", and I repeat "BANKRUPTCY" court. We have had this debate before. No other court will even consider a pro se person to use the ECF at this time.

So what is it? They can as you like to tell people,....or they need permission from the courts? What other courts might allow this?

As usual, all you did was talk yourself into a circle.

Effective January 3, 2005, the Eastern District of California will became an electronic filing and service district. With limited, specified exceptions, electronic filing must be utilized by attorneys in all cases. All attorneys who wish to file documents in the Eastern District of California must be admitted to practice or admitted to appear pro hac vice. Admission to practice in the Eastern District of California includes the requirement that the attorney complete and e-filing registration form and receive a username and password.

Any person appearing pro se may not utilize electronic filing except with the permission of the assigned judge. Pro se litigants, whether or not their litigation is assigned as a pro se case ("PS), shall file and serve paper documents as required by applicable rules of civil or criminal procedure, or the local rules of this district.

Here is some more info for you Megan, about the very court you brought up.

http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/data/formpubs/e_filing_exhibit3.pdf
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Eastern+district+of+Ca/v=2/SID=w/TID=DFXH_2/l=WS1/R=2/SS=24226025/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=2/SIG=11hgb5i4r/EXP=1106326442/*-http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/

 

[meganproser]

>>As usual, all you did was talk yourself into a circle.

Paridise I am trying not to rub your face in this but you seem determined to challenge me for no other reason than because it's ME. Whatever.

For the court to refuse a PS access to the biggest time/money saving tool to come along since computers, would be prejudicial to PS. The courts cannot do that.

Not every court has a notation in their rules to address the issue of PS using ECF, but that just may be because there are relatively few PS in Federal Court!

From what I’ve seen, most courts try to keep PS out of the system when they first set up their ECF. I believe this is because it is a monumental task to train and convince legal professionals to use the system and if they can hold off on adding PS they would like to do so.

Once the main legal community has adjusted, the court is a bit more “welcoming” of the PS.

Do you understand that the ECF is nothing more than sending your documents to the court as an attachment? A CHILD could do it. The courts WANT everything filed electronically…it is saving them a fortune. When a PS files on paper, the clerk has to scan every page, convert it to PDF, and then electronically file it. The documents MUST be EF by someone.

You are arguing that access to the ECF is somehow a sacred right of a licensed attorney. It’s like saying that before ECF, ONLY attorneys could file by mail while a PS had to personally take the documents to the courthouse. Can you see the insanity in that?

Perhaps the problem here is that you think I’m saying a PS has access to the entire ECF system. The court will give the PS an access code that ONLY allows him to access and change HIS OWN FILE. He can’t get into other case files.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

>>As usual, all you did was talk yourself into a circle.

Paridise I am trying not to rub your face in this but you seem determined to challenge me for no other reason than because it's ME. Whatever. Go ahead and prove every word you typed. This is simply your imagination.


For the court to refuse a PS access to the biggest time/money saving tool to come along since computers, would be prejudicial to PS. Say's who? You?

The courts cannot do that. Say's who? You?

Not every court has a notation in their rules to address the issue of PS using ECF, but that just may be because there are relatively few PS in Federal Court! Your wrong, I proved you wrong.

From what I’ve seen, most courts try to keep PS out of the system when they first set up their ECF. From what you have seen? Megan, you came to this site stupid, and you still are. You do a good job on Google, but you forget to post anything relevant.


I believe this is because it is a monumental task to train and convince legal professionals to use the system and if they can hold off on adding PS they would like to do so. You believe? What does it matter what you believe?

Once the main legal community has adjusted, the court is a bit more “welcoming” of the PS. Your so classic.

Do you understand that the ECF is nothing more than sending your documents to the court as an attachment? Of course I know what it is, and you really need to educate your self instead of simply throwing your opinion around.

A CHILD could do it. The courts WANT everything filed electronically…it is saving them a fortune. Wrong.

When a PS files on paper, the clerk has to scan every page, convert it to PDF, and then electronically file it. The documents MUST be EF by someone.

You are arguing that access to the ECF is somehow a sacred right of a licensed attorney. For the most part, yes I am.

It’s like saying that before ECF, ONLY attorneys could file by mail while a PS had to personally take the documents to the courthouse. Can you see the insanity in that?Only yours.

Perhaps the problem here is that you think I’m saying a PS has access to the entire ECF system. The court will give the PS an access code that ONLY allows him to access andI know you are wrong. Now, I have backed up my post...and you of course are welcome to back up yours if you choose. With out your idiotic opinions of course. straight facts will do.

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=ecf+filings+for+pro+per/v=2/SID=w/TID=DFXH_2/l=WS1/R=1/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=1/SIG=11skiq85h/EXP=1106344248/*-http://www.nyeb.uscourts.gov/faq's.htm

Check out # 8 Megan and rub my face in it MKAY?