Ford Dealership blatantly lied about preowned vehicle being in 2 accidents. Auto Fraud?

[Zigner]

it happened yesterday when I confronted them, and Luckily I recorded the conversation. and the text messages are from the dealerships number. Why would they not be viable?

It DOESN'T MATTER. The contract you signed includes your entire deal. Read the contract. Furthermore, I suspect there's an arbitration clause.

 

[Taxing Matters]

It DOESN'T MATTER. The contract you signed includes your entire deal. Read the contract. Furthermore, I suspect there's an arbitration clause.

If there was actual fraud, nothing in the contract will absolve the seller of that fraud. While a sale "as is" means a seller is not responsible for the defects in the car, the seller nevertheless may not intentionally mislead the buyer on the condition of the car. If the seller knew the vehicle was in two accidents but expressly told the buyer that it had been in no accidents, that is fraud and would be a basis to void the sale and seek damages for the fraud as well.

 

[Zigner]

The dealer told the OP the car had been in an accident, and the OP was aware of a prior accident (due to the visually apparent damage).

 

[Taxing Matters]

The dealer told the OP the car had been in an accident, and the OP was aware of a prior accident (due to the visually apparent damage).

Where are you getting that the "dealer told the OP the car had been in an accident"? And significantly, where do you see that the OP was told that prior to the sale? I don't see that in the thread anywhere. What the OP is alleging is that the dealer specifically told him prior to the sale that it had been in NO accidents. The Op stated: "I then asked if the vehicle had any prior accidents or damage both in person and over texts with a dealer. the dealer sent me a 'clean' carfax and assured that it was in no accidents."

And the minor ding the OP apparently noticed might not have have been a clear indicator of an an accident (collision with another vehicle) but of something else.

 

[Zigner]

Where are you getting that the "dealer told the OP the car had been in an accident"? And significantly, where do you see that the OP was told that prior to the sale? I don't see that in the thread anywhere. What the OP is alleging is that the dealer specifically told him prior to the sale that it had been in NO accidents. The Op stated: "I then asked if the vehicle had any prior accidents or damage both in person and over texts with a dealer. the dealer sent me a 'clean' carfax and assured that it was in no accidents."

You're right - my statement was in error.

And the minor ding the OP apparently noticed might not have have been a clear indicator of an an accident (collision with another vehicle) but of something else.

At this point I have to ask where you are getting this it was a "minor ding". The OP said it was minor fender damage. Granted, a "ding" is damage, but the OP's description sounds to me like something more.

 

[Taxing Matters]

At this point I have to ask where you are getting this it was a "minor ding". The OP said it was minor fender damage. Granted, a "ding" is damage, but the OP's description sounds to me like something more.

All we know is that it was "minor" fender damage. That could cover a lot of things. A fender can be easily dented from something other than an accident, so depending on what this looked like it may well have not given any clear indication that it was from an accident. If the OP could not tell from that damage that it was actually caused by an accident rather than something else and the OP relied on the dealer's statements about what caused it and that there had been no accidents then he may well have a case for fraud. I have little sympathy for used car dealers who cross the line from puffery into fraud; all too many used car dealers do that. So unless the damage was so obviously from an accident that any person who is not expert in cars would see it was from an accident, I wouldn't let the dealer off the hook for his/her misrepresentation on an argument that the lie was not material (which is basically where I see you going with this).

 

[Zigner]

All we know is that it was "minor" fender damage. That could cover a lot of things. A fender can be easily dented from something other than an accident, so depending on what this looked like it may well have not given any clear indication that it was from an accident. If the OP could not tell from that damage that it was actually caused by an accident rather than something else and the OP relied on the dealer's statements about what caused it and that there had been no accidents then he may well have a case for fraud. I have little sympathy for used car dealers who cross the line from puffery into fraud; all too many used car dealers do that. So unless the damage was so obviously from an accident that any person who is not expert in cars would see it was from an accident, I wouldn't let the dealer off the hook for his/her misrepresentation on an argument that the lie was not material (which is basically where I see you going with this).

I can respect this. Of course, our OP's next hurdle will (likely) be the arbitration clause in the contract he signed.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I can respect this. Of course, our OP's next hurdle will (likely) be the arbitration clause in the contract he signed.

If the dealer committed fraud then the arbitrator should find in favor of the OP. If the arbitrator is clearly biased and in the pocket of the dealer the OP can go to court, get the decision set aside, and sue in court.

 

[justalayman]

You're right - my statement was in error.

At this point I have to ask where you are getting this it was a "minor ding". The OP said it was minor fender damage. Granted, a "ding" is damage, but the OP's description sounds to me like something more.

I think tm is getting it from the op,s statement


I have this bit in text as well, When i asked what is could be the dealer told me it was hit by a shopping cart. It wasn't major damage but a small fender patch

 

[Zigner]

I think tm is getting it from the op,s statement


I have this bit in text as well, When i asked what is could be the dealer told me it was hit by a shopping cart. It wasn't major damage but a small fender patch

I didn't even see that...

 

[StaidSgtForge]

I didn't even see that...

All we know is that it was "minor" fender damage. That could cover a lot of things. A fender can be easily dented from something other than an accident, so depending on what this looked like it may well have not given any clear indication that it was from an accident. If the OP could not tell from that damage that it was actually caused by an accident rather than something else and the OP relied on the dealer's statements about what caused it and that there had been no accidents then he may well have a case for fraud. I have little sympathy for used car dealers who cross the line from puffery into fraud; all too many used car dealers do that. So unless the damage was so obviously from an accident that any person who is not expert in cars would see it was from an accident, I wouldn't let the dealer off the hook for his/her misrepresentation on an argument that the lie was not material (which is basically where I see you going with this).

I can respect this. Of course, our OP's next hurdle will (likely) be the arbitration clause in the contract he signed.

UPDATE. Okay there seemed do be a few misconceptions i'm going to clarify, The patch was no bigger than my hand, and didn't really look like anything larger. The salesman and manager I worked with both told me explicitly that the vehicles was in no accidents. I managed to pull up an old ad on the vehicle and it stated in the ad CLEAN CARFAX and ACCIDENT FREE AUTOCHECK, which were both big sales points to me because i would never buy a prior wrecked car. The vehicle was "As Is" but like previously stated, and thanks to review from the atty gen and my lawyer, did not cover the fact that they lied and did not disclose the accidents. There was also an arbitration but the violated by giving me false information. I HAD NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF ACCIDENTS ON THE VEHICLE. I attempted multipe times to mediate with the dealership but it has not been fruitful so I am proceeding to sue the dealership. I've had the text messages from the dealership validated, as well as the ad, and have contacted autocheck and confirmed they were reporting the accidents prior to my purchase. thank you all for your input.

 

[Zigner]

... I managed to pull up an old ad on the vehicle and it stated in the ad CLEAN CARFAX and ACCIDENT FREE AUTOCHECK ...

Both are possible without the dealer having lied.

 

[TigerD]

...The vehicle was "As Is" but like previously stated, and thanks to review from the atty gen and my lawyer, did not cover the fact that they lied and did not disclose the accidents. ...

If you are determined to sue and it appears that you are, what are your damages? Have you have the car appraised? Was your trade-in value the ACV or an Allowance value?
Why didn't you listen to your lawyer instead of posting and requesting information here?

TD

PS: bonus points for the HALO reference.

 

[StaidSgtForge]

If you are determined to sue and it appears that you are, what are your damages? Have you have the car appraised? Was your trade-in value the ACV or an Allowance value?
Why didn't you listen to your lawyer instead of posting and requesting information here?

TD

PS: bonus points for the HALO reference.

As of right now the ACV is about $3000 less than if it was not in any accidents, so that's what I am going to be suing for. and yes that is it appraised to ACV. and originally I was looking for input on the matter, I didn't want to jump to legal action which is why I went through the attorney general first.

And thank you haha, I'm a big fan of the older Halos.

 

[StaidSgtForge]

Both are possible without the dealer having lied.

Except the autocheck had the two accidents reported prior to me buying the vehicle. Like I said I contacted autocheck and had it confirmed as such, so that right there is false advertising. and yes they are reported as accidents and not just damage, I obtained copies of both police reports.