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Have I been slandered?

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Centexcoog

Junior Member
Centexcoog

stephenk,

The 'all you have' is all I need. I've since spoken with the person who was told by my former boss that I had stolen from the company. She is willing to testify as well. She's a credible source, and a respected employee. I have no reason to doubt her comments.

Please restate your point, stephenk.
 


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meganproser

Guest
“Current employee had just got out of a meeting with the company owner, and said that he was convinced that I had been stealing from his company while I worked there.”

The job title of your witness and other attendees of the meeting may be important in determining whether or not the boss’s statements were privileged.

It is possible the boss was speaking only to the members of the company that “needed to know” his suspicions about you, in which case his speech may be protected. On the other hand, it is possible to abuse privilege, which will prohibit using the privilege as a defense. You need to research the “privileges” recognized in your state.

You also need to research the difference between “opinion” and “factual” statements. If the negative comments qualify as opinion, you have no case.

How many people were in the meeting and how will the rest of them testify? I’d be nervous about hanging the whole case on the testimony of ONE individual. In fact I’d be reluctant to do anything at all, unless or until I found a witness to corroborate her story.

“I've since spoken with the person who was told by my former boss that I had stolen from the company. She is willing to testify as well. She's a credible source, and a respected employee.”

What is going to happen to your witness once the owner knows you are filing suit?

“Another question that I have is this: Am I required to notify him formally that I think he has slandered me, or can I just file a suit and surprise him with it?”

There is no requirement that you contact him before filing suit. However, a person who is concerned about his reputation generally seeks to put a stop to the defamatory remarks as soon as possible. Your main concern should be damage control and that DOES involve letting the guy know you object to his remarks, possibly even asking him to retract the statements.

You are not required to show that anyone believed the defamatory statement. You must prove the statement was “of and concerning” you, that it was derogatory, that it was communicated to a third person, and that it was false.

It appears the question of insurance coverage for intentional torts has been answered. I do not know if these policies cover a person whose actions were truly “intentional”. One would assume such actions would be excluded from coverage.

It is possible to “accidentally” commit an intentional tort and I presume (I’ve never read an actual policy for such insurance) insurance coverage is limited to such situations.
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
meganproser said:
...It is possible to “accidentally” commit an intentional tort....

Please cite your legal authority for this statement. Thank you.
 
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meganproser

Guest
You can't be serious SJ?

It is entirely possible for someone to make an honest mistake in speaking about another, which causes that individual harm. I would call this a "mistake" or "accident". This UNintentional action will still be addressed via an intentional tort.

Media makes such errors all the time, hence the need to prove they acted with malice, in order to get any punitive damages from them.

I'm on my way out but if you really need to see examples of cases where the media put the wrong photo next to an article about scam artists, incompetence being the media's only crime, let me know and I'll give you some examples later.

I won't be able to show you any legal authority, because it is the absence of negligence, malice, reckless disregard that tells us the action was unintended. I can't prove a negative. All intentional torts are ASSUMED to have been an honest mistake unless the plaintiff can prove otherwise.
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
meganproser said:
You can't be serious SJ?

It is entirely possible for someone to make an honest mistake in speaking about another, which causes that individual harm. I would call this a "mistake" or "accident". This UNintentional action will still be addressed via an intentional tort.

Media makes such errors all the time, hence the need to prove they acted with malice, in order to get any punitive damages from them.

I'm on my way out but if you really need to see examples of cases where the media put the wrong photo next to an article about scam artists, incompetence being the media's only crime, let me know and I'll give you some examples later.

I won't be able to show you any legal authority, because it is the absence of negligence, malice, reckless disregard that tells us the action was unintended. I can't prove a negative. All intentional torts are ASSUMED to have been an honest mistake unless the plaintiff can prove otherwise.

Megan, you cannot accidentally commit an intentional act.
 
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meganproser

Guest
I said you can commit an intentional TORT (not an intentional ACT), by accident. An intentional tort does not have to be based upon an intentional ACT. The tort is good if the plaintiff is harmed, regardless of the intentions of the defendant.

I suppose we could argue endlessly on the definition of "accident". If semantics is the problem, would "unintentional" suit you better? Of COURSE you can commit an intentional tort without intending to do so!

The media does it all the time. They pull the wrong photo out of a file and put it next to an article about a criminal. It's an "accident'. They have no intention of harming the individual but the harm occurs nonetheless.
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
meganproser said:
I suppose we could argue endlessly on the definition of "accident". If semantics is the problem, would "unintentional" suit you better? Of COURSE you can commit an intentional tort without intending to do so!

The media does it all the time. They pull the wrong photo out of a file and put it next to an article about a criminal. It's an "accident'. They have no intention of harming the individual but the harm occurs nonetheless.
I give up.

Somebody else explain it to her.
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
This is an important distinction, one in fact that defines the boundary between intentional and unintentional torts: Even if [the debtor] should have believed that his [conduct] was substantially certain to produce serious harmful consequences, he would be guilty only of [negligence or recklessness], not of an intentional tort.


In support of an objective test, Miller recites what is actually a subjective formulation from the literature on intentional tort: "`the defendant acted with . . . the substantial certainty that his action would injure the plaintiff.'" Miller, 156 F.3d at 604 (quoting Kenneth J. Vandevelde, A History of Prima Facie Tort: The Origins of a General Theory of Intentional Tort, 19 Hofstra L. Rev. 447 (1990)) (emphasis added).

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=10th&navby=case&no=993339
 
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meganproser

Guest
Even if [the debtor] should have believed that his [conduct] was substantially certain to produce serious harmful consequences, he would be guilty only of [negligence or recklessness], not of an intentional tort.

The opinion goes on to say: “At best, the facts here present a case for breach of contract.

The situation in the case you cited, would not qualify as an intentional tort under any circumstances.

In support of an objective test, Miller recites what is actually a subjective formulation from the literature on intentional tort: "`the defendant acted with . . . the substantial certainty that his action would injure the plaintiff.'" Miller, 156 F.3d at 604 (quoting Kenneth J. Vandevelde, A History of Prima Facie Tort: The Origins of a General Theory of Intentional Tort, 19 Hofstra L. Rev. 447 (1990)) (emphasis added).

The above statement is inconsistent with other court decisions as noted in the case you cited:

Other courts, following the Fifth Circuit, have used an objective notion of
substantial certainty, looking to the factfinder's assessment of the likelihood of injury instead of the debtor's knowledge or belief. See Miller v. J.D. Abrams Inc. (In re Miller), 156 F.3d 598, 603_04 (5th Cir. 1998); Baldwin v. Kilpatrick (In re Baldwin), 245 B.R. 131, 136 (9th Cir. B.A.P. 2000); Bowers v. Williams (In re Williams), 233 B.R. 398, 405 (Bankr. N. D. Ohio 1999).


The basis of any tort is that the defendant had a legal duty to the plaintiff, and that duty was breached. In that context, every person has a duty to take care when mentioning another person’s name.

An individual who recognizes that duty is not going to “accidentally” commit an intentional tort of defamation or invasion of privacy.

A person who does not recognize that duty, who is completely ignorant of it, could EASILY breach that duty without intending to harm anyone. I would call this an accident or an unintentional infliction of harm.

A person who was aware of his duty but who really believed he was relaying true facts or who mistakenly relayed true facts but implicated the wrong person, has also unintentionally breached his duty.

When the above-described bumbling fool damages someone’s reputation, the appropriate cause of action for the plaintiff is defamation. Hence, the defendant did not intend to harm the plaintiff...it was an “accident”, unintentional, but the “cure” for the plaintiff will be found via an intentional tort.

Does anyone know of any other claim the plaintiff might have in place of defamation? I'm open to suggestions.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
meganproser said:
A person who does not recognize that duty, who is completely ignorant of it, could EASILY breach that duty without intending to harm anyone. I would call this an accident or an unintentional infliction of harm.
You're in law school and still arguing that it's possible to commit intentional negligence? Unless you meant to say NIED instead, I'd love to know what law school teaches this crap so I can make sure I never hire anyone from there in the future.
 
You Are Guilty said:
You're in law school and still arguing that it's possible to commit intentional negligence? Unless you meant to say NIED instead, I'd love to know what law school teaches this crap so I can make sure I never hire anyone from there in the future.
YAG:

Head's up, *meganPoser* is not a law school student.
 

Centexcoog

Junior Member
Centexcoog

To comment on a question raised about whether the employee had a 'need to know' in her management role at the company: the answer is a clear 'no'.

Another comment regarding whether he intentionally made the comment, or maybe it just an aside, or passing observation mentioned with other possibilities as to why the company is failing: the answer to this is that it was a statement made in the following way: "I know that John is stealing from my company, I just don't know how to prove it." Seems like an intentional comment to me.

I agree with the comment regarding the fact that I need to stop his conduct, if possible. However, he has no fear of legal action against him, so a letter from me or my attorney probably will just delay things.

In Texas, if I understand correctly, only one party to a telephone conversation has to be aware that the call is being recorded. That said, if I call my former boss and ask him if he made the statement above, and he confirms that he made the comment, can I use the recorded call in court?

Thanks to all who have commented and given me food for thought regarding this issue!
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
You Are Guilty said:
You're in law school and still arguing that it's possible to commit intentional negligence? Unless you meant to say NIED instead, I'd love to know what law school teaches this crap so I can make sure I never hire anyone from there in the future.
She reads Google wrong YAG. She will no doubt still argue it, as she doesn't see the reality of anything but "Megan's World".
 
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You Are Guilty

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
She reads Google wrong YAG. She will no doubt still argue it, as she doesn't see the reality of anything but "Megan's World".
I not sure where I got that idea from, but I'm rather relieved to hear that i was wrong. :D
 
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