Homeless Probation

[CdwJava]

Quincy, I did not base my comment on passing contact with a few people in the homeless community. I based it on dealing with the same people over and over again over the course of years. Hundreds. Not just in NYC, but in neighboring counties as well. Every one of my co-workers has stories about the legions of "regulars" that they deal with on a daily basis.

I've sent many to the hospital over the years for obvious drug and alcohol intoxication. Even when they return after a day or two and seem to be "sober" they exhibit very abnormal behaviors. Help is always offered and in almost every case refused.

I can now recall only one case where the people involved did not appear mentally ill or intoxicated. I responded to a complaint of a man and woman sitting in front of a train station with luggage for days at a time, apparently traveling but never going anywhere.

I made contact with them and ascertained that the husband was a paralegal who had gotten laid off and was unable to find employment - he was on the older side. The wife never worked and their well-off family refused to help them by taking them in for a few months to allow them to get on their feet. They were caught in a bad spot and were unable to get real help. I made some contacts with county homeless services on their behalf and the last time I spoke to them the husband said he had a job interview. I never saw them again so I like to think they made out alright. They were the exception to the rule.

Every day before taking my present administrative assignment I was in contact with dozens of homeless in the subways, train stations, on the streets, etc. As far as I'm concerned while housing is an important issue, mental health care is a much bigger factor, and the City of New York has failed miserably there (as well as the other counties I work in, to a lesser extent). The mental health organization founded and led by the mayor's wife is unable to account for over 3/4 of a billion dollars of their funding, and has had no success in making things even minimally better.

Think what you will - I have no idea what it's like anywhere else in the country, but I'll stick with my assessment based upon my day-to-day experiences dealing with this issue up close.

Ditto!

Because of my personal desire and my association with NGOs and local religious organizations, I spent more than a dozen years as a sergeant as a local and regional representative to assorted consortiums, commissions, and boards assembled to address issues relating from transitional age youth to chronic homelessness. I have worked among the people on the street, provided in counts, brought them to shelter, taken them to the hospital, arrested them, and even transported them to rehab. My current agency made me the liasion to programs in two counties because I was the only officer with a serious interest - and experience - in the work, and as part of that I got to see how programs (the good and the bad) were addressed in other counties in CA. The "homeless" story most of the public sees is the image that most reflects them. The general public do not tend to understand the nature of the subculture and the psychology and/or disability of so many of those that live on the street. Because they are often so UN-like the majority of us in thought, dreams, and desires, we fail to see how providing them with assistance might not lead to their overcoming their problem ... in part, because so man on the street do not see their situation as a problem as it is, for them, a choice - even if, to us, it might be a bad choice.

The answer is not a simple one, and what might be right for the subset of the street population that most of us can relate to because they think like we do, that same solution just will NOT work with the majority.

 

[CdwJava]

I agree that there are homeless people who are homeless due to the circumstances you describe, but in my area (Los Angeles), there is a much higher proportion of drug addicted homeless folks than there are folks who are "down on their luck".

That's true of the street population as a whole.

 

[quincy]

I work in Detroit. Tell me I don’t see the same population of homeless that you do.

 

[CdwJava]

I work in Detroit. Tell me I don’t see the same population of homeless that you do.

Seeing and interacting are different animals entirely.

 

[Zigner]

Jail is not a solution for the homeless, regardless of circumstances. I fully support the idea of housing first.

Housing alone will not help. It needs to be a comprehensive program of treatment, social programs to prevent relapse, housing, and (perhaps most importantly) the desire of the person to actually be helped.

EDIT: I didn't see Carl's post (#46) before posting this.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to some information on Detroit and how it has reduced the homeless population with a “housing first” program:
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/detroit-leaders-credit-housing-first-strategy-reducing-homelessness

This is what South Africa and Scotland discovered. Provide housing first, and then work on the other problems.

 

[CdwJava]

Here is a link to some information on Detroit and how it has reduced the homeless population with a “housing first” program:
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/detroit-leaders-credit-housing-first-strategy-reducing-homelessness

This is what South Africa and Scotland discovered. Provide housing first, and then work on the other problems.

Yes, and these programs work for that subset of the homeless population that seeks such aid and assistance and is willing to abide by the rules associated with these programs. It does NOT work for the majority of the homeless population that law enforcement, EMS, Emergency Rooms, and those who work among the homeless see most often here in the US. Providing actual housing for most of these people will simply not work and will only cause new and more devastating problems. I am all for programs that work. But, the race to slap up four walls and slap the 75%+ of the street population that will not or cannot care for themselves of adhere to rules will simply not work as intended.

 

[quincy]

I disagree.

 

[CdwJava]

Disagree all you want. Anyone who actually works in these populations sees a different view of the problem than the media and the do-gooders do. I've been actively engaged in the work on the ground and active assistance and planning for about 15 years. You?

 

[quincy]

Media/do-gooder.

 

[CdwJava]

Nothing wrong with seeking answers and solutions. But, we cannot make the mistake that a one-size-fits all solution will work for all, or even a sizable majority of the street population. Too often, at least out here, the solution is building tents, housing, or shelters, with little to no thought of ongoing support. Grant funding tends to address one-and-done solutions and these garner headlines and allow for wonderful sound bytes. A politician trots out the down-and-outer or family that was assisted and proclaims victory while demonstrating their own compassion (at great taxpayer expense - sometimes far greater than it would have cost to otherwise support them). Meanwhile, the people that deal with the issue every day are still dealing with the same issue, because the people that tend to take advantage of these services and programs touted by the media and politicians are not the ones we deal with on a regular basis. Yet, in spite of the never-ending battle and repeat customers, all of those people go out again and again ... because it's what they - what WE - do for people.

 

[quincy]

We are seeing a drop in homelessness. All I can say is that it works here. Certainly housing first works better than arresting the homeless.

(just as a note, this thread was reported two pages ago for going off-topic )

 

[Zigner]

Here is a link to some information on Detroit and how it has reduced the homeless population with a “housing first” program:
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/detroit-leaders-credit-housing-first-strategy-reducing-homelessness

Q - First - those numbers are from nearly 2 years ago. Additionally, their tally of homeless persons in 2017 was around 2,000. We have some small neighborhoods with that many homeless...

 

[quincy]

Q - First - those numbers are from nearly 2 years ago. Additionally, their tally of homeless persons in 2017 was around 2,000. We have some small neighborhoods with that many homeless...

I can provide updated information but I hesitate to take this thread too much farther away from its original intent. I will head elsewhere to continue.