How can I get access to my counties court database?

[phonebook]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Cincinnati, OH

They have court records on a website but they won't let you scrape it. I want to get this data so I can open it up to the public in a way that is actually easy to query and analyze.

I asked them (the webmaster) for it and I was ignored. What is the next step? Where do I file paperwork to get access to this data? I'm not content just being told no. I think this data should be in the public domain in a real way. The way it is currently in the public domain only allows you to spy on an individual. It completely prevents you from looking at the system as a whole.

*to clarify - i don't want to sell this data and I am not railing against anyone in particular. i want to create an open database that can be queried by the public.

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Cincinnati, OH

They have court records on a website but they won't let you scrape it. I want to get this data so I can open it up to the public in a way that is actually easy to query and analyze.

I asked them (the webmaster) for it and I was ignored. What is the next step? Where do I file paperwork to get access to this data? I'm not content just being told no. I think this data should be in the public domain in a real way. The way it is currently in the public domain only allows you to spy on an individual. It completely prevents you from looking at the system as a whole.

*to clarify - i don't want to sell this data and I am not railing against anyone in particular. i want to create an open database that can be queried by the public.

And what makes you think that you a) get to make such a decision and b) actually have inherent rights to demand online access to this information?

 

[phonebook]

And what makes you think that you a) get to make such a decision and b) actually have inherent rights to demand online access to this information?

if I tell you will this go off on a tangent or will you tell me the answer?

 

[Proserpina]

if I tell you will this go off on a tangent or will you tell me the answer?

The answer should be painfully obvious by your very first post.

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Cincinnati, OH

They have court records on a website but they won't let you scrape it. I want to get this data so I can open it up to the public in a way that is actually easy to query and analyze.

I asked them (the webmaster) for it and I was ignored. What is the next step? Where do I file paperwork to get access to this data? I'm not content just being told no. I think this data should be in the public domain in a real way. The way it is currently in the public domain only allows you to spy on an individual. It completely prevents you from looking at the system as a whole.

*to clarify - i don't want to sell this data and I am not railing against anyone in particular. i want to create an open database that can be queried by the public.

Each county that wants its residents to have ready access to court records already provides that access through its own websites. That way, the information can be controlled according to legal requirements, and the data is preserved for accuracy and secured against compromise.

There could be a reason why your county doesn't web access to those records. It could be for legal reasons, or it could be that the county cannot afford to build and maintain such a database for public access.

I would suggest that you check with your local elected officials to see why your county doesn't offer such a service. If anyone is going to facilitate something like this, then that would be the proper channel to follow to make it happen.

 

[CdwJava]

No sysadmin is going to allow you access to the database in order that you might install your own system in it. None. Such a thing would have a host of problems.

If you are willing to suggest a platform or a program that they might incorporate one day, you are free to make any suggestion you want. But they are NOT going to allow you access to any government network.

 

[Proserpina]

I don't think OP is actually wanting access to the databases in that context; only that s/he wants the courts to open up the records to the public and then s/he can become what would effectively be a clearinghouse.

(It's still not going to happen, but that's what I gleaned from the original post)

 

[Proserpina]

And though it greatly pains me to say this, people would actually pay for such a service even though the information would be accessible for free if they only took the time to research themselves.

Heaven only knows this website is a prime example of how all too often, people are too lazy to perform even the most perfunctory of searches before asking a question here!

(It takes longer to actually make an account than it would to Google the answer themselves!)


Oh, where is the headbanging thingy when I need it?

 

[CdwJava]

I don't think OP is actually wanting access to the databases in that context; only that s/he wants the courts to open up the records to the public and then s/he can become what would effectively be a clearinghouse.

(It's still not going to happen, but that's what I gleaned from the original post)

He wrote:

"I want to get this data so I can open it up to the public in a way that is actually easy to query and analyze."

I interpreted this to mean that he wanted access to the data - current data, not old. And since court data can change as court cases progress, it would not be timely and accurate if pulled once a year or every few months and then transferred somehow to another format for evaluation.

The only way to obtain timely access to the data is to access it at the source. Unless the OP were willing to pay for it to be mined, culled, and transmitted to him, they sure as heck are not going to produce the data so that he can reprint it on his own using a different engine. The most effective way would be to have access to the database itself and then create a custom interface somehow.

But, if he simply wants a printout of data, then he can make a public records request and the agency has ten days to deny the request explaining their reasoning in writing. If the information is information not typically captured or would require some extraordinary measures to create such a record, then the agency may not have a requirement to provide it. It depends on what it is he wants and in what form ... and how often.

 

[CdwJava]

The OP is from Cincinnati and I found a great source for searching court records in a number of ways:

http://www.courtclerk.org/queries.asp

It may be clunky, but it works. I am not sure what data the OP wants, but you can find most cases this way it would seem.

 

[Proserpina]

He wrote:



I interpreted this to mean that he wanted access to the data - current data, not old. And since court data can change as court cases progress, it would not be timely and accurate if pulled once a year or every few months and then transferred somehow to another format for evaluation.

The only way to obtain timely access to the data is to access it at the source. Unless the OP were willing to pay for it to be mined, culled, and transmitted to him, they sure as heck are not going to produce the data so that he can reprint it on his own using a different engine. The most effective way would be to have access to the database itself and then create a custom interface somehow.

Upon re-reading, yes, I do think you're reading it correctly and I was not.

But, if he simply wants a printout of data, then he can make a public records request and the agency has ten days to deny the request explaining their reasoning in writing. If the information is information not typically captured or would require some extraordinary measures to create such a record, then the agency may not have a requirement to provide it. It depends on what it is he wants and in what form ... and how often.

I'm wondering if he's trying to set up some sort of PACER equivalent. Either way, I doubt he's going to get what he wants any time soon.

 

[phonebook]

wow, people are actually talking about this. that's awesome. no, i don't want to make money off of this. my only goal would be to make the data open so that citizens know what is happening in the justice system. at the absolute very least this would help people make more informed decisions where elections are concerned. i've also emailed the Law library at the Cincinnati College of Law but as of yet they have not responded.

PACER charges you to view records which makes it impossible to do any real analysis one way or another. While PACER makes it possible to spy on an individual it does not allow you to look at the system as a whole.

 

[phonebook]

you can BUY the data

again, my interest is not in making money. this is not a business venture.

while they do not give the data away they do sell it. http://www.courtclerk.org/about.asp?sec=pol search for (G) Mass Data Extractions

 

[CdwJava]

What kind of info on court cases do you want that are not already provided locally? And if the records you seek are not time sensitive but statistical, that information is probably available on a quarterly, semi-annual or annual basis in one way or another. If you seek real time, instant access to pending court cases and the like, you can already search for cases. If you seek the number of cases on a future docket, you can probably get that info with a phone call or through some other means.

So, what data is it you seek that you cannot get right now? And who do you propose pays for any upgrade in a computer system? You? The county? Someone else?

 

[CdwJava]

again, my interest is not in making money. this is not a business venture.

while they do not give the data away they do sell it. http://www.courtclerk.org/about.asp?sec=pol search for (G) Mass Data Extractions

Then why would they want to GIVE it away? They can choose to if they want, but to accomplish the task costs them money. Governments are going broke everywhere, and you want to actually impose an added cost?