How to Retrieve Property

[eerelations]

The police need to retrieve the items...

Not gonna happen.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Giving up because it's too much trouble is for lesser people!

No. Giving up because it is too much trouble and/or too costly to pursue given the value of the stuff at issue is the mark of a smart and practical person. Spending more time and trouble than it is worth on the basis of "principle" is in most instances not worth it as you rarely get the satisfaction from it that you really want. What is this stuff? What is it worth? Is this stuff really so important to make all this effort worthwhile AND at the same time potentially do long lasting damage to family relationships?

 

[eerelations]

What I don't understand is if OP is so willing to drive to AZ to see his BIL prosecuted in court, why is he oh-so-unwilling to drive there now to pick up the stuff?

And OP, you do realize that if the cops somehow magically decide to go to your BIL's house and charge him with theft, the cops will have to withhold the stuff from you as evidence? And that you won't get said stuff for many months, possibly even years? You know this, right?

Seems to me this is more about sticking it to BIL than getting the stuff.

 

[not2cleverRed]

She has pictures of the goods.
He agreed to transport the goods. There are many messages going back and forth to corroborate that.
There are receipts with the items in question that have my wife's name on them (her parents wrote her name instead of theirs), and we have pictures of those receipts.
The police need to retrieve the items and evidence prior taking any action so he does not dispose of them. Considering the value of the items, it is worth making the trip to AZ, knowing a fair trial with police retrieving the items is worth it to us.

Giving up because it's too much trouble is for lesser people!

And there we have it: Giving up because it's too much trouble is for lesser people!

No, Don Quixote, giving up in this case is wise.

1) Reread Lit22's post (#14), which enumerates your legal obstacles.

2) Cost. Even if you drive, your are going to spend more than the cost of the items if there is any resistance. You estimate the value of these items at $1500. What is the cost of your time, gas, hotel bills... because yes, if your BIL resists at all and you try taking this to court, you are not necessarilygoing to be in and out in one day.

3) Family peace. I get that you want to be the heroic man in your wife's eyes. What you're coming across as is a drama llama. Whatever happens, her sister is her sister. Your mother and father-in-law are the parents of your wife and her sister. Don't get in the middle of a family squabble. Let the other son-in-law have all the egg on his face.

 

[CdwJava]

There are receipts with the items in question that have my wife's name on them (her parents wrote her name instead of theirs), and we have pictures of those receipts.

The police need to retrieve the items and evidence prior taking any action so he does not dispose of them. Considering the value of the items, it is worth making the trip to AZ, knowing a fair trial with police retrieving the items is worth it to us.

The police do not "need" to do anything. As explained to you on the other site, this is an easier civil matter than a criminal one. If you have the police conduct a standby while you speak to the BIL, they will keep the peace but they will NOT arrest the BIL or force him to return the property. If you want him prosecuted, your wife can report the theft or embezzlement to the local police in AZ and see IF they can make a case (which, I doubt). Embezzlement may be the best they can do (and that's a long shot), but that may take time - especially if the BIL does not cooperate.

Have your wife take the issue to Small Claims court if she wants the stuff. She'll likely have to fly to AZ a couple of times, but that's up to her.

 

[Litigator22]

She has pictures of the goods. . . . Giving up because it's too much trouble is for lesser people!

Well now, would you two "bigger people" be generous enough to impart to some of us "lesser" folks your plans to authenticate the reproductions of said "receipts" to render them admissible as evidence . . .

That is, without having available the substantiating testimony of either; (1) a knowledgeable representative of the merchant that sold the goods and tendered the original receipts, or (2) one of the parents that paid for the goods and to whom the originals were initially delivered. (In legal lingo it is known as laying a foundation.)

Moreover, one or other of the above proposed witnesses must be prepared to testify that the copies are accurate reproductions of the original receipts.

As for the pictures of the goods - the same onus befalls you in laying an evidentiary foundation rendering the pictures admissible as evidence. Meaning that someone needs to be able to testify as to whom, where, when and how the images were obtained and that they fairly and accurately depict what you the proponents says they depict. And lamentably neither of you two are the "depictor"!

Also, please explain how you intend to show a relevant connect between the receipts and pictures with the goods claimed to be wrongfully withheld by the brother-in- law; how it came to pass that they are in his possession; and your lawful entitlement thereto and the immediate right to their exclusive possession - all without the sworn testimony of one of the parents.

A Clarence Darrow couldn't swing it and neither can you.

 

[axescot]

I never thought this was going to be easy or there isn't any legal obstacles. If it was easy, I wouldn't have to post on an online forum. And the items have value to pursue this. Definitely giving up in the face of adversity is for lesser people!

 

[CdwJava]

Hey, if it is worth it for your wife to spend a couple thousand dollars (or more) in travel expenses and a few days off over the next year or two to try and obtain $1,500 in goods in civil court, bully for her.

Criminally, this is all but a nonstarter. But, if she wants to give that a go she needs to call the AZ law enforcement agency with tentative jurisdiction and see what they have to say.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Definitely giving up in the face of adversity is for lesser people!

It's fine to pursue something in the face of adversity if the end goal is worth the effort you put into it and you have at least a reasonable shot to win. But $1500 worth of stuff you've never even seen except in a photo wouldn't be worth the cost and trouble it would take to get it in my view. You are likely to spend more than this stuff is worth to win. Would you really feel it's worth spending, say, $2500 to get a $1500 judgment? If so, then this is about nothing more than proving something to the relatives, and I think you'll be disappointed at that result. They aren't likely to be hugely impressed even if you win, and may even be laughing behind your back at all the cost you had to expend to do it. I've seen people litigate hoping to humble or humiliate the other side and most of the time they come away from it dissatisfied because the opposing side did not give them the reaction they hoped for.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I never thought this was going to be easy or there isn't any legal obstacles. If it was easy, I wouldn't have to post on an online forum. And the items have value to pursue this. Definitely giving up in the face of adversity is for lesser people!

Retain a lawyer that specializes in quixotic law.

Your goal isnt getting the gifts, but sticking it to the BIL. At the rate you're going it would be more time and cost effective to wire your wife's parents some money and fly them out to visit you. They'd really like to see the grandbaby.

It's going to be a delight when you come back in a year posting in the Family Law section.

 

[axescot]

There are many things I can do to stick it to my BIL but I haven't done them. And I'm only calling the cops as a last resort. I have tried to get the gifts using other methods and I also tried talking my wife out getting them, but there is sentimental value. I just wanted to hear other opinions so I know what to say to the cops. It has been helpful but no longer helpful at this point, and therefore I will not be watching / responding to this post anymore.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

And I'm only calling the cops as a last resort

It doesn't matter in what order you contact the police. They will do nothing about it.

 

[bcr229]

Look, not2cleverRed made a good point earlier and I'm going to expand on it: why couldn't your sister-in-law simply take everything to the post office, shove it all into flat-rate boxes, pay for the postage, and send it to you? If money is an issue, she could get the boxes, which are free, pack everything up at home, and have you send shipping labels. If money is not an issue, ask yourself why she doesn't ship the items, especially since this kind of bad behavior is a pattern based on your posts. Is your wife's sister scared of her husband? Or are they both untrustworthy?

Rather than getting mad because you're not getting the advice you want to hear, you, your wife, and your wife's parents need to figure out how to negate any damage these shenanigans can cause the family in the future, and how to do it with minimal drama. I can't tell you what to do but based on my experience with my late parents, they would have simply stopped sending gifts to the adults on that side of the family for birthdays and Christmas, and only the grandchildren would have received presents. Any medical or financial POA's would have gone to the trustworthy children, and their Wills would have been set up so that the untrustworthy children were not listed as executors. If my parents had suspected spousal abuse or if a child was bad with money, a felon, an alcoholic or drug abuser, etc. then the inheritance would have been left as a trust to be doled out over time rather than a lump sum.

Hopefully I've given you something to think about other than getting the cops and courts involved in this mess.

Good luck.