How to revoke a living revocable trust?

[LdiJ]

i dont know what you are referring to when you say "funding a revocable trust"

most of the time when i talk or listen, funding your revocable trust is the same as titling an asset with the trust name

so for example, i first create my trust. nothing has been titled to it, so it controls nothing, and is considered to be "unfunded"

once i change the title of any asset of mine to the name of the trust, the trust is then considered to be funded

and if i get all my assets titled over, then the trust is considered to be fully funded

you seem to be using the term differently ?

No, I am not using the term differently. However, to fund a trust with liquid assets those assets must be in an account. A tax identification number must be used for every account out there. Therefore if someone gets an EIN so that they can fund their revocable trust, and puts liquid assets in an account with the EIN number, then any income from that account will be reported in name of the trust.

Then, when the person goes and does their personal tax return, and properly includes the income on their personal return, the IRS is going to come looking for an income tax return down the road for the trust, because the IRS is not going to know that its revocable, therefore it causes confusion and causes explanations to need to be made to the IRS and in general is a pain in the neck.

as i stated already, the federal govt does not even recognize a revocable trust. it is not a legal entity. so it is absolutely illegal to try to record a tax return, or anything else with an ein other than your social security number to the federal govt for yourself, as an individual.

Nobody suggested that anyone should file a tax return in the name of the trust while the trust is revocable. However, its not really illegal in the sense that most people would use the word illegal. Its more improper than illegal.

obviously, a company that you own may have its own tax id number. but no revocable trust can have a tax return to the federal govt.

See above.

although i do not think that anyone would get away with it - simply because tax id numbers are directly associated with names. and i think it would automatically cause the irs to send you a letter to that effect.

See above.

 

[TrustUser]

even your explanation agrees with me - it is illegal

first, doing something illegal does not make you a bad person, or a dastardly criminal

whether something is proper or not is irrelevant in a legal discussion, since it is not a legal term

something is said to be legal, if it is allowed by current laws

something is said to be illegal, if it is not allowed by current laws

so if someone sets up a bank account with the ein for a revocable trust, the irs will remind him that he did something illegal

 

[LdiJ]

even your explanation agrees with me - it is illegal

first, doing something illegal does not make you a bad person, or a dastardly criminal

whether something is proper or not is irrelevant in a legal discussion, since it is not a legal term

something is said to be legal, if it is allowed by current laws

something is said to be illegal, if it is not allowed by current laws

so if someone sets up a bank account with the ein for a revocable trust, the irs will remind him that he did something illegal

You still do not get it. It is not illegal or even improper to fund a revocable trust. Its a foolish thing to do and makes things more complicated but its not illegal or improper.

It is improper to file a tax return for a revocable trust, as the income from a revocable trust should be reported on the tax return of the grantor. It is not illegal to do so.

Therefore no, the IRS will never inform someone that a trust bank account is illegal or improper, whether its a revocable trust or not.

You are simply wrong on this one.

 

[TrustUser]

i am sorry, but it is you who does not yet get it

i never said it was illegal to fund a revocable trust. that is what the trust is for - to get funded

and please stop using the terms proper and improper. they are irrelevant. when we are talking about the law, it is either legal or illegal

and for the umpteenth time, it is illegal to file a federal tax return for a revocable trust

anything funded to a revocable trust carries along with it the social security number of the grantor

the federal govt does not recognize a revocable trust as an entity

it would be similar to filing a tax return for a person who never existed

our govt does not tell us what is proper or improper. it does tell us what is legal or illegal.

and filing a federal tax return for someone who does not exist IS ILLEGAL

END OF DISCUSSION

if you dont get it by now, you never will. everyone else reading it, does get it. and that is my only point - to educate anyone who wants to be educated

 

[LdiJ]

i am sorry, but it is you who does not yet get it

i never said it was illegal to fund a revocable trust. that is what the trust is for - to get funded

and please stop using the terms proper and improper. they are irrelevant. when we are talking about the law, it is either legal or illegal

and for the umpteenth time, it is illegal to file a federal tax return for a revocable trust

anything funded to a revocable trust carries along with it the social security number of the grantor

the federal govt does not recognize a revocable trust as an entity

it would be similar to filing a tax return for a person who never existed

our govt does not tell us what is proper or improper. it does tell us what is legal or illegal.

and filing a federal tax return for someone who does not exist IS ILLEGAL

END OF DISCUSSION

if you dont get it by now, you never will. everyone else reading it, does get it. and that is my only point - to educate anyone who wants to be educated

Anyone who is tempted to consider this to be the definitive answer should consult a tax accountant.