hypothetical change in custody

[challenges]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA and IL

I posted before about jurisdiction questions but that thread is locked so sorry for starting a new thread.

Background: 2 children. Joint legal; I have had primary physical custody since we separated in 2004. Children and I relocated to IL in 2006. Dad has 30% visitation time.

My question is a hypothetical one.
Our son is 14 and is showing signs of oppositional defiant disorder (in addition to a couple of other issues). We are in family therapy, he has a tutor, and a psychiatrist and and IEP at school. I am seriously considering offering dad a chance to parent our son during the next academic year (first year in high school). Dad has anger issues (the kind of guy who gets into road rage incidents) and drinking issues (one hit and run while drinking) as well. However, he is more firm and strict than I am. It is *possible* our son might do better with that type of parenting - or they could butt heads terribly.

So, the question is - if I propose this to Dad and he accepts and we separate the siblings (this would be better for our daughter as she is picked on by our son) and it doesn't work out would it be difficult for me to get our son back out here to IL? In other words does it start a new status quo that the courts would not want to change?

Thanks!

 

[Isis1]

I personally think it's a bad idea. But, let's do this.

Dad now has custody. On what basis would you be trying to get him back? Why would you play merry go round house with your son?

What therapy is he receiving now?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I landed up splitting my kids when I moved to Florida. My older daughter didn't want to come and so she stayed with dad; younger child is with me. My daughter tells me now that it was the worst decision of her life.

In any case, in the custody order, the children were together whenever there were breaks. If I had Thanksgiving & Spring break, the older child came down to me. Vice versa with younger child going up for the breaks. We split the summer in half.

If your gut tells you that it might not be good for him, then seriously think about what you are doing.

 

[challenges]

my gut is confused

If your gut tells you that it might not be good for him, then seriously think about what you are doing.

It's so hard to figure out what is best. Sometimes I think my son needs a strong male figure to back me up (I'm single). His father has a wife and no other children so they would have the emotional resources to counter our son's defiance and manipulitve behavior. Our family therapist told me tonight that if he couldn't learn to control his impulses he would eventually not be able to live at home - she's talking instituionalization of some sort. So, I'm just trying to figure out how to give him the best chance for success.

But he wants to live here. So confusing! I wish that dad and I could talk freely about this but we can't. No, I don't want our son bouncing back and forth if he moved and it didn't work out. So, maybe it's just a bad idea.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

From the sounds of it, dad has his own issues. Can he deal with your son full time? What resources would be available to help your son in California? From the sounds of it, you already have the IEP in place, etc. He would have to change therapists, doctors, etc. Does dad keep him on his meds too when they visit?

 

[CJane]

YES, it could very well be an uphill battle to get your son back if it doesn't work out.

And frankly? I hate the "he needs a firm male influence" mentality. Testosterone does not a good parent make, any more than a uterus makes YOU a good parent.

Sending an emotionally disturbed child to the other side of the country, to be parented by someone with anger issues and drinking/addiction issues just seems like tossing gasoline on a fire.

 

[challenges]

YES, it could very well be an uphill battle to get your son back if it doesn't work out.

And frankly? I hate the "he needs a firm male influence" mentality. Testosterone does not a good parent make, any more than a uterus makes YOU a good parent.

Sending an emotionally disturbed child to the other side of the country, to be parented by someone with anger issues and drinking/addiction issues just seems like tossing gasoline on a fire.

I see your points. And it's not like me to use the 'firm male influence' line but I tell you when a boy almost as big as me stands in front of his x-box so I can't take it away I have to say I wish I was a large alpha male! It's a son/mother dynamic that is complicated. One moment he's hugging me and the next moment challenging me.

Oh, and yes about meds in the summer, he doesn't need to take them when he is not in school. But we are still trying to find the right medication, his constellation of symptoms are atypical.

I think I'll be taking everyone's advice. I'll drop the idea for now. I do have a flexible schedule to handle his multiple appointments and I am much more calm than his dad. Thanks so much for the feedback!

I'll be back when dad finally follows through on his threats to file for a change in custody. Apparently I'm taking too long to complete my PhD and he wants us to move back to CA.

 

[CJane]

I see your points. And it's not like me to use the 'firm male influence' line but I tell you when a boy almost as big as me stands in front of his x-box so I can't take it away I have to say I wish I was a large alpha male!

Frankly? The solution isn't for a bigger person to get back in his face.

I'm not a very big girl. My DOG outweighs me, or nearly so, and can fit my entire head in his mouth. Don't ask. But he will NOT face me down. Neither would my 2000lb thoroughbred mare who had been known to charge just about anyone who set foot in her pasture. She could have killed me without breaking a sweat. And I could literally tilt my head at her and send her running to the other end of the pasture.

No, kids aren't dogs or horses. But they're also not that much different than either of those two things.

Brute force isn't going to work. And neither is trying to out-tough or out-bully the kid.

 

[PQN]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA and IL


So, the question is - if I propose this to Dad and he accepts and we separate the siblings (this would be better for our daughter as she is picked on by our son) and it doesn't work out would it be difficult for me to get our son back out here to IL? In other words does it start a new status quo that the courts would not want to change?

Thanks!

If you son's doctor is talking about sending him to a RTC, his issues are likely toward the extreme end.

Some things to consider...

1. Is your daughter physical and emotionally safe if he continues to live with you?

2. Are you safe?

3. Can dad (or step-mom, who is a legal stranger and under no obligation to help dad with your son) get him to regular therapy, doctors appts, deal with the schools, etc?

4. Is time with dad preferable to an RTC? Does dad agree with the possible need for an RTC? Can you afford an RTC (about $300/day)?

(A side note: ODD is a cop-out of a diagnosis. It simply lists the behaviors he is doing and gives no direction for treatment. Keep pushing the doctors -- a neuropsych evaluation is your best bet at getting a true diagnosis -- the why he is acting this way.)

 

[PQN]

Summer visitation...maybe offer dad extended summer visitation. Then if you and dad feel that son did better with dad than he did with you, then transfer primary custody to dad for the school year.

 

[stealth2]

Frankly? The solution isn't for a bigger person to get back in his face.

I'm not a very big girl. My DOG outweighs me, or nearly so, and can fit my entire head in his mouth. Don't ask. But he will NOT face me down. Neither would my 2000lb thoroughbred mare who had been known to charge just about anyone who set foot in her pasture. She could have killed me without breaking a sweat. And I could literally tilt my head at her and send her running to the other end of the pasture.

No, kids aren't dogs or horses. But they're also not that much different than either of those two things.

Brute force isn't going to work. And neither is trying to out-tough or out-bully the kid.

Ditto this. And while my kids aren't THAT much bigger than I am, they are both definitely stronger and faster. But I am STILL alpha in this house. Always have been, always will be.

*Unfortunately*, it takes a lot more work to rule with a velvet hand if force and physical confrontation have been the rule. It's much easier if you start out teh other way. Still, it's doable with time and effort.

 

[mistoffolees]

If you son's doctor is talking about sending him to a RTC, his issues are likely toward the extreme end.

Some things to consider...

1. Is your daughter physical and emotionally safe if he continues to live with you?

2. Are you safe?

I agree. Those are really the only two reasons I'd even consider a change like this.

3. Can dad (or step-mom, who is a legal stranger and under no obligation to help dad with your son) get him to regular therapy, doctors appts, deal with the schools, etc?

4. Is time with dad preferable to an RTC? Does dad agree with the possible need for an RTC? Can you afford an RTC (about $300/day)?

(A side note: ODD is a cop-out of a diagnosis. It simply lists the behaviors he is doing and gives no direction for treatment. Keep pushing the doctors -- a neuropsych evaluation is your best bet at getting a true diagnosis -- the why he is acting this way.)

Yep. I'm really tired of ODD 'diagnoses' here. It seems to be short for "my child is acting up and I can't control him/her".

In any event, my advice is the same as in the other similar thread:

1. It sends the wrong message to the kids (both the boy and the girl). In spite of what you think you're saying, they hear "I'm only loved if I meet some standards of behavior".

2. It teaches them that might makes right. You're too big for Mom to handle, so you go to someone even bigger and meaner.

3. Dad has his own problems. Sending the kid there could make things worse, rather than better.

Unless there is a real risk of harm to either Mom or sister, I'd suggest taking a parenting course - and developing a backbone.

 

[PQN]

1. It sends the wrong message to the kids (both the boy and the girl). In spite of what you think you're saying, they hear "I'm only loved if I meet some standards of behavior"..

It depends on the severity of the behavior. I agree 100% that sending a kid 'away' for being bratty is going to send that message. But if the child is harming others and other methods of keeping everyone safe have failed, it send the message "I love you but you are not allowed to hurt others and if you cannot be safe, I will do what I need to in order to keep everyone safer."

2. It teaches them that might makes right. You're too big for Mom to handle, so you go to someone even bigger and meaner.

3. Dad has his own problems. Sending the kid there could make things worse, rather than better..

Some kids, sadly, only respond to those they feel are 'mightier' than them or when they are outnumbered (ie. staff at a RTC). A lot depends on how Dad is dealing with his problems. A good amount of mental illness is genetic and Dad may have experience with the mental health system in his community. That could be beneficial. Of course, if Dad denies his problems and thinks that ignoring the son's issues will make them go away, that would easily make it worse.

Unless there is a real risk of harm to either Mom or sister, I'd suggest taking a parenting course - and developing a backbone.

I'd also recommend finding your local chapterof NAMI. Also, if he is involved with drugs/alcohol, the local chapters of Al-anon and Families Anon. And read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene and "Parenting with Love and Logic" by Foster Cline.

Good Luck.

 

[MichaCA]

A couple of other suggestions;

A book; "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy" by Michael Bradley Ed.D He discusses in depth difficult teen behavior and also he discusses physical confrontations.

Make sure you have or are building a support group around parenting. Friends, counseling, classes, parenting group...Parenting alone a difficult child can be draining - lots of support will keep you sane.

 

[mistoffolees]

It depends on the severity of the behavior. I agree 100% that sending a kid 'away' for being bratty is going to send that message. But if the child is harming others and other methods of keeping everyone safe have failed, it send the message "I love you but you are not allowed to hurt others and if you cannot be safe, I will do what I need to in order to keep everyone safer."

Yes, I agree. I already said I'd consider it if safety were an issue.

But there's no sign of that here. OP said:
"Our son is 14 and is showing signs of oppositional defiant disorder (in addition to a couple of other issues). We are in family therapy, he has a tutor, and a psychiatrist and and IEP at school."

SHOWING SIGNS of ODD doesn't sound like a dangerous situation to me.