Innocent, yet Reprimanded by College

[TLeigh]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Can a college reprimand a student for an off campus situation without any Standards of Conduct violations, which campus police stated no crime?

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Can a college reprimand a student for an off campus situation without any Standards of Conduct violations, which campus police stated no crime?

Yes..Perhaps. Depends.

Would you like to enlighten us to the situation and if this is a Public or Private School??

 

[Humusluvr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Can a college reprimand a student for an off campus situation without any Standards of Conduct violations, which campus police stated no crime?

What does it say in the student handbook?

 

[cbg]

I'll save her the trouble of typing it all out again:

Innocent, Yet Reprimanded by College for Off Campus Activity

 

[TLeigh]

Yes..Perhaps. Depends.

Would you like to enlighten us to the situation and if this is a Public or Private School??

It's a community college.

cbg provided the url to the other site (thanks).

From Humusluvr

"What does it say in the student handbook?"

A brief summary...

The college has authority to act within the District of the college. Campus police are fully POST certified and they police near and within the college District.

New info...

The follow up letter is interesting. It states I was notified to make an appointment about a “possible Standards of Conduct violation”. This is false and I can prove it.

It further states “I explained the seriousness of your actions. From this date forward you are to have no contact with [said professor] or his family. You understand any future Standards of Conduct violations could result in more severe consequences, including immediate suspension.”

What seriousness of what actions? No crime was committed. No Standards of Conduct violated. So what did I do wrong to prompt action from the college that now leaves a somewhat minor ripple on an otherwise clean academic record?

If I can litigate these actions against me…the professor and/or the college…I’m all for it. This campus is very inadequate in responding to student concerns about unusual behavior of the instructors or staff on campus. One I know of personally was of an instructor who aggressively belittled a student in front of an entire class as class was in session and he went into an emotional tirade for an hour. He also bribed the class with extra credit points for not reporting him about it. The last person on campus to do anything with it was the President of the Associated Student Government who forwarded it to Student Affairs. This was four years ago…nothing more was done.

And here I am, innocent of everything across the board and feeling like I’ve been nailed without cause.

Pardon any ‘rants’.

I’d appreciate any information that can help.

Thanks.

 

[Zigner]

I think you need to stop harassing the prof. and his family.

 

[Humusluvr]

It's a community college.

cbg provided the url to the other site (thanks).

From Humusluvr

"What does it say in the student handbook?"

A brief summary...

The college has authority to act within the District of the college. Campus police are fully POST certified and they police near and within the college District.

New info...

The follow up letter is interesting. It states I was notified to make an appointment about a “possible Standards of Conduct violation”. This is false and I can prove it.

It further states “I explained the seriousness of your actions. From this date forward you are to have no contact with [said professor] or his family. You understand any future Standards of Conduct violations could result in more severe consequences, including immediate suspension.”

What seriousness of what actions? No crime was committed. No Standards of Conduct violated. So what did I do wrong to prompt action from the college that now leaves a somewhat minor ripple on an otherwise clean academic record?

If I can litigate these actions against me…the professor and/or the college…I’m all for it. This campus is very inadequate in responding to student concerns about unusual behavior of the instructors or staff on campus. One I know of personally was of an instructor who aggressively belittled a student in front of an entire class as class was in session and he went into an emotional tirade for an hour. He also bribed the class with extra credit points for not reporting him about it. The last person on campus to do anything with it was the President of the Associated Student Government who forwarded it to Student Affairs. This was four years ago…nothing more was done.

And here I am, innocent of everything across the board and feeling like I’ve been nailed without cause.

Pardon any ‘rants’.

I’d appreciate any information that can help.

Thanks.

I think that you feel innocent, but the professor obviously feels harassed.

I believe the letter would remain in your file, because as long as you are a student there, the situation (where you contact the professor) has the opportunity to happen again. If it did, they need to be able to refer to the previous situation. The previous situation needs to be documented. The documentation is the letter.

If I were you, I would get over it, get past it, finish your research, and move on. You don't need to give this any more effort, because you're likely to make Student Affairs reprimand you again. Just because you weren't charged with a crime, doesn't mean harassment cannot become criminal. Drop it.

 

[TLeigh]

I think that you feel innocent, but the professor obviously feels harassed.

How did I harass him? I left him alone and again it is questionable if she or he ever read the single one time message to his wife, which was quite sincere and polite. No vulgarity. No threats. No harassing. No private info. about him disclosed to her and vice versa other than about myself.

I believe the letter would remain in your file, because as long as you are a student there, the situation (where you contact the professor) has the opportunity to happen again. If it did, they need to be able to refer to the previous situation. The previous situation needs to be documented. The documentation is the letter.

The professor was contacted through a different email than the college and his wife was messaged through a public social networking site.

I was told by the previous Director of Student Affairs at the same college, given this is outside of campus jurisdiction, the furthest this should have gone was campus police stating no crime was committed and that Student Affairs has nothing on me. The entire file is baseless for action.

If I were you, I would get over it, get past it, finish your research, and move on. You don't need to give this any more effort, because you're likely to make Student Affairs reprimand you again. Just because you weren't charged with a crime, doesn't mean harassment cannot become criminal. Drop it.

That would be admitting I did something wrong and how can Student Affairs acting out of jurisdiction reprimand anyone for a crime that might happen without a crime to base it on???

I'm the one who has been harassed.

Just to note...this issue I went to them a total of three times between both has to do with a personal item loaned by the professor that sent me into an REM seizure the first night I had it. I just wanted to know something about why this may have happened. I've spent nearly thirty years trying to track down the sensory trigger to these seizures. They are very rare and a huge question mark even to the experts well established in medical science.

Is asking a single question to each of them and just once for each considered harassment?

 

[Zigner]

You contacted him, he ignored you, so then you contacted his wife.

Prof felt harassed...

 

[TLeigh]

You contacted him, he ignored you, so then you contacted his wife.

Prof felt harassed...

Yes I contacted him, but he did not ignore me. He did reply and without threat. He just declined to answer a question and I'm very OK with that. That was never the problem.

And regardless of what he felt about a private message sent to someone else and regardless of who that someone else is to him, the college still acted outside of their jurisdiction and that is what I'm questioning...

Can the college be held responsible for taking action outside of their jurisdiction...especially when the given issue is without a crime and without any Standards of Conduct violated?

 

[Humusluvr]

Yes I contacted him, but he did not ignore me. He did reply and without threat. He just declined to answer a question and I'm very OK with that. That was never the problem.

And regardless of what he felt about a private message sent to someone else and regardless of who that someone else is to him, the college still acted outside of their jurisdiction and that is what I'm questioning...

Can the college be held responsible for taking action outside of their jurisdiction...especially when the given issue is without a crime and without any Standards of Conduct violated?

Were you friends with the wife on Facebook? That may be one telling sign.

If you were - then I would feel you were justified in talking to your facebook friend.

If you were not friends, and you contact her, unsolicited, after you had already been given an answer by the professor - I feel you are harrassing the professor's family. And apparently, that's how the professor feels too. You can't control his reaction to the situation you created. You opened the can of worms.

The college is NOT outside of their jurisdiction. They are dealing with a staff issue - one student harassing a professor and his family. That is EXACTLY what the Student Affairs office is for. To document this, so that if it happens again, they can deal with you accordingly. It doesn't matter if it happened on campus, off campus, or in cyberspace - it's a student and a professor and his family, and thus they need to take action.

Here's my opinion - and if you want to keep fighting it out - whatever.

You never should have contacted the wife. That was inappropriate and harassing.

The college dealt with the situation without kicking you off campus, which you were lucky for.

The documentation of the issue will remain in your file.

Come back and let us know if I was right or wrong. It will be interesting to see how you argue this with the school, because if you attempt legal ramifications, I predict you'll lose.

 

[TLeigh]

Were you friends with the wife on Facebook? That may be one telling sign.

If you were - then I would feel you were justified in talking to your facebook friend.

If you were not friends, and you contact her, unsolicited, after you had already been given an answer by the professor - I feel you are harrassing the professor's family. And apparently, that's how the professor feels too. You can't control his reaction to the situation you created. You opened the can of worms.

No, she and I were not on each other’s friend’s list. Both her page and his have a public, thus open friend’s list and messaging has public access. This is something the user can control.

I can make initial contact provided there aren’t any previous orders not to and the initial contact is non hostile. He just noted to me that he wasn’t willing to provide what I was asking and the contact to his wife was sincere.

What did motivate me into going through with it…I wasn’t sure if it was his wife and that is clear in the message to her…she may be a relative (in law). Her name is the same as a family member of mine who last I knew lived where she and the professor are from.

The college is NOT outside of their jurisdiction. They are dealing with a staff issue - one student harassing a professor and his family. That is EXACTLY what the Student Affairs office is for. To document this, so that if it happens again, they can deal with you accordingly. It doesn't matter if it happened on campus, off campus, or in cyberspace - it's a student and a professor and his family, and thus they need to take action.

Then why would a staff member who knows the procedures, because they dealt with these procedures and these procedures are still in place would tell me the college has nothing on me and I have a green light so to speak for expunging the file?

Extreme example: Three students…one is raped by the other two at a party off campus. The college would have been out of their jurisdiction had the college taken action against any of them. Explain this please and compare.

The documentation of the issue will remain in your file.

I would REALLY like to know what makes you so sure of this. It’s almost creepy (nothing personal ).

Come back and let us know if I was right or wrong. It will be interesting to see how you argue this with the school, because if you attempt legal ramifications, I predict you'll lose.

Right now, I’m working primarily at expunging the file. If they need a file for record keeping, fine…take it out of the disciplinary folders. I have a right to request a grievance. Anything else depends on circumstance. I’m looking at a “what if” scenario.

And I do appreciate your perspective. It’s useful. Thank you.

 

[Zigner]

I'd suggest that you stop harassing the prof. and his family.

 

[Humusluvr]

No, she and I were not on each other’s friend’s list.

Then you contacted her in an unsolicited manner.

Then why would a staff member who knows the procedures, because they dealt with these procedures and these procedures are still in place would tell me the college has nothing on me and I have a green light so to speak for expunging the file?

Well then you have your answer - why are you asking here?

Extreme example: Three students…one is raped by the other two at a party off campus. The college would have been out of their jurisdiction had the college taken action against any of them. Explain this please and compare.

They aren't even comparable - and you know that.

I would REALLY like to know what makes you so sure of this. It’s almost creepy (nothing personal ).

I'm a college professor, and my close friend is the Director of Student Judicial Affairs at the college we work at. I asked him.

 

[TLeigh]

Then you contacted her in an unsolicited manner.

Granted, but does that really define harassment?...and what if she is a relative of mine? Did that go without notice? Also, just to save time while it's in mind...

What about common interests in terms of approaching a virtual stranger on a social site like facebook? I do understand laws in this area are still quite fuzzy and gray, but isn't that what a site like facebook is for? To make friends with common interests?

Well then you have your answer - why are you asking here?

To gain perspective.

They aren't even comparable - and you know that.

Yes they are as much as they are contrasting.

In comparison, both issues are off campus and both involving active members of a college community. In contrast a crime and a very serious and violent one was committed in one case without actions taken by the college. The other is without a crime committed and without violation to the Standards of Conduct, yet action was taken by the college.

It's the contrast that fails to justify the actions against me by the college. The professor and his wife are a different set of circumstances.

I'm a college professor, and my close friend is the Director of Student Judicial Affairs at the college we work at. I asked him.

So I know well enough to take this with 'a grain of salt', but still a worthy perspective to keep in mind and this is certainly assisting with the proper language and vocabulary to use. So what do you teach?

Later, I'll give an update to today's events. I just want to review the file at the moment. I am innocent, though can't prove it here on a forum board, this is truly a case of false accusation and baseless action. It is the professor's behavior that is questionable and hopefully that is revealed today. I know exactly what I'm looking for.

Well professor, you've certainly taught a few things. Now we'll see how well some of this applies.

Good day