Is a "nonrefundable" security deposit legal?

[kthomp66]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
Hello everyone.
I was just curious if in Ohio a nonrefundable security deposit is legal? In my lease agreement, it says my $600 deposit (NOT move in fee) was not refundable, and I'm curious if that is possible. I'm not trying to be a crappy tenant, and my landlord is a very relaxed guy. Given our current issues with the property though, I'm thinking it'd be nice to get that back (issues range from oven flashing "F2" every time we preheat, faulty washing machine that stalls mid-rinse cycle, and a broken basement pipe that is causing sewage backup).
Thanks in advance.

 

[GoBoilers_MSU]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
Hello everyone.
I was just curious if in Ohio a nonrefundable security deposit is legal? In my lease agreement, it says my $600 deposit (NOT move in fee) was not refundable, and I'm curious if that is possible. I'm not trying to be a crappy tenant, and my landlord is a very relaxed guy. Given our current issues with the property though, I'm thinking it'd be nice to get that back (issues range from oven flashing "F2" every time we preheat, faulty washing machine that stalls mid-rinse cycle, and a broken basement pipe that is causing sewage backup).
Thanks in advance.

Is it called a "deposit" in the lease or a "security deposit?" Does the lease state what the deposit is for? Does it allude to it being a security deposit?

Did you pay this amount in addition to your first months rent? If it seems the "deposit" is a "security deposit," it seems the following would apply, meaning it isn't lawful.


5321.16 Procedures for security deposits.
(A) Any security deposit in excess of fifty dollars or one month's periodic rent, whichever is greater, shall bear interest on the excess at the rate of five per cent per annum if the tenant remains in possession of the premises for six months or more, and shall be computed and paid annually by the landlord to the tenant.

(B) Upon termination of the rental agreement any property or money held by the landlord as a security deposit may be applied to the payment of past due rent and to the payment of the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with section 5321.05 of the Revised Code or the rental agreement. Any deduction from the security deposit shall be itemized and identified by the landlord in a written notice delivered to the tenant together with the amount due, within thirty days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The tenant shall provide the landlord in writing with a forwarding address or new address to which the written notice and amount due from the landlord may be sent. If the tenant fails to provide the landlord with the forwarding or new address as required, the tenant shall not be entitled to damages or attorneys fees under division (C) of this section.

(C) If the landlord fails to comply with division (B) of this section, the tenant may recover the property and money due him, together with damages in an amount equal to the amount wrongfully withheld, and reasonable attorneys fees.

Cite as R.C. § 5321.16

 

[FarmerJ]

I suggest you search in your states landlord and tenant web pages and search for your states details as to any possible limitations placed on landlords in regard to tenant deposit funds , EG if a state has limited tenant deposit funds to physical damage and a tenant has nothing more than normal wear and tear but owes a landlord one late fee, the LL cannot just take the money from tenant deposit funds if its not allowed by a state law. SO in that case then its fair to argue that a LL cannot expect a court to honor a lease that says a deposit is not refundable. Pet deposits that are not refundable have no recourse available to a tenant. And even if a deposit is listed as non refundable there is a chance that when a court sees tenant pictures of how clean a unit is at move out and how it had nothing more than light wear and tear ( and pics taken at the start of a tenancy too can help) its possible that a court might choose to refuse to reward a landlord and find for a tenant , (doesn't mean the LL will willingly pay a judgment )

 

[kthomp66]

So in the initial agreement, we were to pay a $500 "nonrefundable security deposit," plus an additional $100 for my cat, which totaled "600, on top of first and last month's rent at $750. It totaled $2100 first first, last and deposit. In the renewed agreement it says "This initial lease, the rent is ($800) per month (the "Rent"). And a security deposit of $400 which is non-refundable...upon entering into this lease agreement. The following monies is due upon signing this least, which are: 1st months rent $800 last months rent $800 and the security deposit of 400 dollars and if a pet is allowed a deposit of $100 is due, for a total of $2100 is due upon signing. But in the event of a lease renewal, no security deposit, pet deposit and last months rent will be collected..."
I ended up working a deal with him though to avoid the $2100. I paid an additional $50 to offset the already paid $750 for last month's rent. Also, we never left the rental, so we never actually used the previous last month's rent, so there would have been no reason for any additional anything, from my experience anyway. I've never had a landlord ask me to pay the start up fees of a lease twice when we were just renewing. Me trying to be a decent tenant, I paid the $50 to avoid an expense I couldn't afford.
My issue with the revised is that I don't see anywhere where it explicitly states a landlord cannot make a deposit nonrefundable. Perhaps it is implied, but I just needed clarification.

 

[kthomp66]

(doesn't mean the LL will willingly pay a judgment )

Just to satisfy my two dollar mind, let's just say I have to go to court over this, and my LL doesn't pay. There's a clause in the agreement that says the loser will pay the other's court costs. Let's say I won and he didn't pay. Is there any recourse there? I ask because I remember him telling me one day how he isn't paying a debt because "the guy deserved it." Not sure if that was a legal fee, or just an under-the-table thing. I didn't want to know.

 

[GoBoilers_MSU]

So in the initial agreement, we were to pay a $500 "nonrefundable security deposit," plus an additional $100 for my cat, which totaled "600, on top of first and last month's rent at $750. It totaled $2100 first first, last and deposit. In the renewed agreement it says "This initial lease, the rent is ($800) per month (the "Rent"). And a security deposit of $400 which is non-refundable...upon entering into this lease agreement. The following monies is due upon signing this least, which are: 1st months rent $800 last months rent $800 and the security deposit of 400 dollars and if a pet is allowed a deposit of $100 is due, for a total of $2100 is due upon signing. But in the event of a lease renewal, no security deposit, pet deposit and last months rent will be collected..."
I ended up working a deal with him though to avoid the $2100. I paid an additional $50 to offset the already paid $750 for last month's rent. Also, we never left the rental, so we never actually used the previous last month's rent, so there would have been no reason for any additional anything, from my experience anyway. I've never had a landlord ask me to pay the start up fees of a lease twice when we were just renewing. Me trying to be a decent tenant, I paid the $50 to avoid an expense I couldn't afford.
My issue with the revised is that I don't see anywhere where it explicitly states a landlord cannot make a deposit nonrefundable. Perhaps it is implied, but I just needed clarification.

There is a lot going on here. To answer your original question, based on the statute I referenced in my last post, if it is a security deposit, it is not lawful for it to be "non-refundable." If the landlord deducts money from the security deposit, an itemized list is required listing those damages. It seems if the landlord doesn't comply (section (C)), you get your owed deposit (minus any proven damages) and attorney fees. If the landlord doesn't pay after being ordered by a judge, then s/he's in contempt of court. It isn't a matter of the landlord's choice.

Your landlord sounds like a real work of art.

 

[FarmerJ]

Do make a copy of the first lease and store it in a bank safety box ( yes go rent a bank box) and gather up all your receipts from when you first moved in and add them to the bank box along with a second copy of the current lease even if they don't match, Your money you paid when you moved in has not vanished into thin air even if the renewal numbers are wrong , you paid deposit and last month , your LL can increase the last months rent held to match renewal rate with proper notice according to the terms of the lease. (unless the lease allows the LL to change something then nothing can be changed until the next renewal) You wrote about a broken basement pipe and problem with the washer and cook stove , have you sent to your landlord a written on real paper letter about the three items sent via certified mail & kept a copy for your own records stapled to your postal receipt ? if you did not then I suggest you do so this way you have a real paper trail established so should you ever have to show a court that you did indeed communicate to the LL about those repairs you can. I suggest you begin to treat every thing about this particular rental as if you were preparing for a future court date since I cannot help but wonder if your going to have more problems with the LL since the LL has not fixed the pipe first.

 

[HRZ]

AS an aside..a provision that violates law or public policy might well get tossed at the beginning. And the judge is unlikely to be impressed with double talk about nonrefundable deposits .....words matter...if its worded as a lease processing fee and it is not unreasonable it might fly...but a nonredundable pet deposit is anther oxymoron .

A deposit might be nonrefndable in context that all damages come out of it first...but that is not context of your post .

Loswr pas winners legal costs is not common but I doubt it is illegal ....I'm not sure it's a smart provision for LL to have added .....

AN oven that doesn't work is a bit of an issue if not promptly repaired ....the last F-2 code I got was an $ 700 repair ...and I know how to do it ...don't know your specific oven A broken basement pipe causing sewer back up can be a whopper problem ...I'd paper that one quite well, promptly , and insist LL get it fixed ...and to code by licensed plumber if that's a requirement in your jurisdiction ...as is quite common.

 

[kthomp66]

Fun little update, if that’s what we want to call it.
Today my LL texted asking if our heater was working fine. I explained that it’s warm, but that we have to keep it at 78 for it to keep any heat, so the filter may need changed. He then proceeds to call and leave a voicemail (I was at work) that he needs to talk to me about amending our new lease.
I text him and ask what’s going on with it (mind you, he ignored the filter part entirely) and he tells me he wants to change it where we take $250 off the rent, but we assume utilities. He told us at the start that utilities are budgeted, and show me a receipt of $252 total for all utilities. My rent is $800/month now, so that’d be $802, if my math is correct. I ask how much utilities are running, and tell him I have to speak with my significant other about it. He said they’re $246, and that rent would be $500 plus utilities for $750/month. So someone’s math is ohh here, and I’m sure it’s not mine.
I talked it over with my S/O, and we’re in agreement that something isn’t adding up here’s and that he must be taking some kind of hit with utilities that they’re racking up so much he wants to amend it. I told my LL that we would prefer to keep it as it is because we like knowing what each month is going to cost, and also it would cost too much in security deposits to get everything switched in our names because we’ve never had utilities in them before. Radio silence on his end.
I’m thinking the problems with heating, the washer not cycling properly, and the F2 on the oven are causing spikes in utility bills, and that they’re not actually budgeted.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Fun little update, if that’s what we want to call it.
Today my LL texted asking if our heater was working fine. I explained that it’s warm, but that we have to keep it at 78 for it to keep any heat, so the filter may need changed. He then proceeds to call and leave a voicemail (I was at work) that he needs to talk to me about amending our new lease.
I text him and ask what’s going on with it (mind you, he ignored the filter part entirely) and he tells me he wants to change it where we take $250 off the rent, but we assume utilities. He told us at the start that utilities are budgeted, and show me a receipt of $252 total for all utilities. My rent is $800/month now, so that’d be $802, if my math is correct. I ask how much utilities are running, and tell him I have to speak with my significant other about it. He said they’re $246, and that rent would be $500 plus utilities for $750/month. So someone’s math is ohh here, and I’m sure it’s not mine.
I talked it over with my S/O, and we’re in agreement that something isn’t adding up here’s and that he must be taking some kind of hit with utilities that they’re racking up so much he wants to amend it. I told my LL that we would prefer to keep it as it is because we like knowing what each month is going to cost, and also it would cost too much in security deposits to get everything switched in our names because we’ve never had utilities in them before. Radio silence on his end.
I’m thinking the problems with heating, the washer not cycling properly, and the F2 on the oven are causing spikes in utility bills, and that they’re not actually budgeted.

Refresh my memory... Have you signed the new lease? When does the new lease take effect?

 

[kthomp66]

We resigned October 1st. And I came to realize he never signed my copy. Our lease is two copies of a ten page word document.
Our filter also gave out for the furnace last night. Luckily my brother is home from work so he came and fixed it. I’m notifying the LL about it today to see if he’ll reimburse filter costs. It’s cheap, but still. Principles.

 

[kthomp66]

More info:
LL stopped by to “make sure I wasn’t mad he asked about the change.” Told my S/O “the court suggested” he ask us to do that. Zzz come to find out hes filing chapter 13 bankruptcy. My sister in law said he’s probably trying to hide his assets. He also said he still can’t get the $1200 fix in the basement done yet. He wants me to call and talk to him after I get off work, for what reason I don’t know.