Is forwarding someone elsees mail to my house illegal?

[quincy]

I don't know about the USPS, or even Canada Post, but I once had my gas service cancelled (suddenly, no hot water!) by my drug-addicted, drug-dealing pedo pimp neighbour as some kind of sick joke in retaliation for me calling the cops on his "boys" for breaking into my place in the middle of the night and waving a giant knife at me. When my hot water stopped, I called the gas company and when I told them I still lived there, they turned my gas back on at once. I asked how this was possible to happen and they said if anyone calls to stop the gas, the gas will stop. Horrified, I asked why they didn't have some sort of measures to prevent this, and they said they didn't 'cause it hardly ever happened. Huh.

Wow. I don't know what amazes me more - the gas shut off on some random person's request or that Canada has drug-addicted, drug-dealing pedo pimps. Haha.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Depending on facts, up to 5 years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

I have doubts that this would ever be prosecuted by DOJ under that section. While written broadly, it is not as broad it may appear on its face. "The force and effect of the statute is to prevent frauds upon the Government." Stein v. United States, 363 F.2d 587, 590 (5th Cir. 1966). "This section is designed 'to protect the authorized functions of governmental departments and agencies from the perversion which might result from the deceptive practices described.'" United States v. Tobon-Builes, 706 F.2d 1092, 1096 (11th Cir. 1983). In short, the purpose of the statute appears to be to protect the government from the harm of false statements made to Congress or federal agencies. I'm not seeing any real harm to the government in this. I'm not saying it would be impossible to do. I see a risk in the DOJ pursuing it, though, and even without that, given that there seems to be little harm to the government involved, I can't see DOJ being that keen to prosecute it. Would a jury really think this serious enough to convict the person of a federal felony? Were I on the jury, my answer would be no. And I doubt I'm the only one who would feel that way. DOJ would need to be concerned that other jurors might also have that same view.

 

[quincy]

There are other federal laws that can apply. 18 USC section 1001 was one given by the USPS. Others are section 1702 and 1708.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1708
Change of address fraud is, perhaps surprisingly, not all that uncommon. It is another form of identity theft. It is relatively easy to change someone else's address just by knowing a little bit about the person whose mail you want to divert.

Because mail can include checks and bank statements and credit card information, an identity thief can accumulate enough information to ruin their target's life for quite awhile.

If I were a victim of change-of-address fraud, I would not want you on the jury.

 

[quincy]

I have doubts that this would ever be prosecuted by DOJ under that section. While written broadly, it is not as broad it may appear on its face. "The force and effect of the statute is to prevent frauds upon the Government." Stein v. United States, 363 F.2d 587, 590 (5th Cir. 1966). "This section is designed 'to protect the authorized functions of governmental departments and agencies from the perversion which might result from the deceptive practices described.'" United States v. Tobon-Builes, 706 F.2d 1092, 1096 (11th Cir. 1983). In short, the purpose of the statute appears to be to protect the government from the harm of false statements made to Congress or federal agencies. I'm not seeing any real harm to the government in this. I'm not saying it would be impossible to do. I see a risk in the DOJ pursuing it, though, and even without that, given that there seems to be little harm to the government involved, I can't see DOJ being that keen to prosecute it. Would a jury really think this serious enough to convict the person of a federal felony? Were I on the jury, my answer would be no. And I doubt I'm the only one who would feel that way. DOJ would need to be concerned that other jurors might also have that same view.

Here is a link to the USPS Inspector General's audit and report that addresses change of address fraud:

https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/change-address-identity-verification-internal-controls
Target dates for making recommended changes to the change of address procedures, to protect consumers from this form of identity theft, were March, 2019, and September, 2019.

 

[Taxing Matters]

There are other federal laws that can apply.

I was addressing the use of that one statute in the facts given here. Where the change of address is part of another crime, like identity theft, certainly that identity theft is something that may indeed be prosecuted. But it takes more than just putting in the change of address to commit such fraud offenses.

If I were a victim of change-of-address fraud, I would not want you on the jury.

If the case involved an actual fraud in which you were victimized (i.e. the defendant bilked you out of money in the scheme) I would be fine with convicting the person if the evidence is there. But again, it takes more than just the forwarding of mail to do that. Simply forwarding the mail, without more, is not a fraud on the person whose mail is forwarded. It might be annoying and harassment, but not a fraud. I might see in cases where it rises to a level of harassment that a misdemeanor offense might be appropriate. But I don't see a federal felony for simply forwarding mail as appropriate.

Federal and state criminal laws have gotten out of control in the last 50 years. We make a number of things crimes that ought not be crimes. They'd be best dealt with instead as a civil matter of some kind; a civil fine might be better than the criminal law in addressing the problem. Most other democratic nations seem get along just fine without criminalizing all the things we do and don't imprison people at anything close to the rate that we do. The United States has the highest prison population of any country in the world by far, surpassing even Russia and China. Per a BBC article citing the International Centre for Prison Studies, the U.S. had nearly 2.2 million people in prison/jail. The next highest is China, with about 1.55 million people incarcerated. On a per capita basis, the U.S. is also the World's leader, with 655 persons incarcerated per 100,000 people; the next closest was El Salvador, at 620. Russia comes in at around 415. China is quite low, at 118, owing to its very large population.

The good news is that over a decade ago the U.S. rate of incarceration was over 1,000 per 100,000 of population. So it has been declining. But we have a way to go.

Locking up someone for as long as 5 years for simply forwarding mail without any fraud associated with it to me would be a great example of the punishment far exceeding the "crime" and a contributor to the very high rate of incarceration that the U.S. has. We tar some people with criminal records for things that ought not be crimes to begin with. And then we pay a lot of money in tax for imprisoning them, and I don't think that's money well spent.

 

[aldaron]

"A person submitting a false change of address form may be imprisoned for up to five years, or more in certain instances, plus subjected to a fine up to $250,000. The charges may be obstruction or mail, theft or mail, and/or making a false statement."​

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

"A person submitting a false change of address form may be imprisoned for up to five years, or more in certain instances, plus subjected to a fine up to $250,000. The charges may be obstruction or mail, theft or mail, and/or making a false statement."

Where'd that quote come from? Because it seems to be saying that submitting a false change of address may be charged under some statute or another. Which all I can say is, "Duh".

 

[quincy]

Where'd that quote come from? Because it seems to be saying that submitting a false change of address may be charged under some statute or another. Which all I can say is, "Duh".

Aldaron probably quoted from the change of address form itself. That is printed on all of them.

It is a crime to submit a false one, as was said early in this thread.

Whether the mother will be prosecuted largely could depend on what crazymil4me, his wife, and the current wife of the deceased man decide to do about the diverting of the mail. I suspect nothing will come of this - but the current wife might want to make it an issue.

 

[justalayman]

So, if no mail has been received by op, how does he/she know one has been submitted?

 

[quincy]

So, if no mail has been received by op, how does he/she know one has been submitted?

Probably with a "welcome" letter from the USPS.

 

[justalayman]

Probably with a "welcome" letter from the USPS.

They do that?

But how would op know who submitted the change of address?


This sounds a bit odd to me, almost like somebody was considering doing this and trying to figure out if they could get into trouble.

 

[quincy]

They do that?

But how would op know who submitted the change of address?


This sounds a bit odd to me, almost like somebody was considering doing this and trying to figure out if they could get into trouble.

This thread is possibly to learn of the legal ramifications of submitting a fraudulent change of address form - although there is no real indication that is the case.

 

[justalayman]

This thread is possibly to learn of the legal ramifications of submitting a fraudulent change of address form - although there is no real indication that is the case.

Well, I don’t know too many successful criminals that broadcast their intent.


This wasn’t meant to acsuse the op but the situation is odd. I would actualy expect a disgruntled child to be more likely to do this this

Anyway, if the op has verification this happened he should take whatever notice he recieved to the post office and inform them no mail from the fil’s address should be forwarded to his address. It was an error that a change of address was submitted for the father in law.

Any mail he recieved or recieves due to the change of address should be returned to the post office where again he can remind them the change was in error and should be voided.


Since mail to any given address is documented, it would be best if the op hand delivered the mail to the post office. He should note the date, time, and who accepted it. Since all mail is documented now, should a piece of mail sent to the ops home not show up at the fil’s home there could be allegations of mail tampering or mail theft.

 

[quincy]

Right. That was the advice provided earlier.

 

[justalayman]

Right. That was the advice provided earlier.

Actually, no, it wasn’t. Not a single suggestion I made was proffered previously.