Is it normal for a Judge to do this?

[Mrjimbov]

What is the name of your state? Indiana
September 7, 2018 my son caught his wife, of 4 years, with another man. He packed his clothes and moved out. On Sept. 8th she called my son and told him she is leaving their 2 children (3yr & 5 months old) with her sister, for him to pick up after work, because she was moving to Florida with her new boyfriend. On Sept. 10 my son filed for divorce due to multiple counts of infidelity and for temp custody. The courts kept putting the case off until she came back to Indiana (in mid November) and was able to be served divorce papers. They went to court yesterday Jan 11, 2019 and she told the judge that she didn't want the divorce even though she admitted to having 5 affairs during their marriage. The judge asked her if she wanted temp custody of the children and she said not really but she will take them if the court is going to make her pay child support. So, the judge gave my son temp custody and said NO support order will be issued, "because she doesn't have a job". The judge gave her unlimited visitation and ordered the 2 of them to attend marriage counseling at least once a week for the next 2 months... at my son's expense, because she doesn't have a job. And he continued the matter until March 15.
Is this normal? Can he make my son pay for marriage counseling when he doesn't want to reconcile? Can the judge order NO support if my son is given permanent custody?
If the judge is overstepping his bounds, what can we do about it?

 

[adjusterjack]

Obviously the judge CAN do what he DID do. If your son doesn't like the ruling he can hire himself a lawyer and appeal the ruling. Trouble is, he'll pay more in attorney's fees than he'll ever pay supporting his children and going to counseling.

The trick is for him to do what the judge says and hope she doesn't cooperate or just leaves town with her boyfriend again.

If he has medical insurance he should check to see if it covers counseling. Apparently there are medical codes used by insurance companies counseling for relationship problems. He should make sure how it's covered (if it is) so the counselor can use the proper codes for billing purposes.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=v61.10+partner+relational+problem&t=h_&ia=web

 

[not2cleverRed]

Are you sure this is "marriage counselling" and not "co-parenting classes"?

It is my understanding that some states require divorcing couples with children to go through such classes, in an effort to make the transition easier for the children.

Yes, a judge can require things. The judge can go easy on Mom and let her create her own noose.

Do you really believe that someone who is a serial adulterer will put any serous time into marriage counselling? Or that a parent who abandoned her children at her sister's to move out of state with the flavor of the month is going to give a flip about "co-parenting"? *I* don't. The party that resists trying to take the high ground/be patient/long suffering gets a ding in the judge's book. Ding for Mom.

Did Mom *really* say to a judge that she didn't really want temporary custody unless that was the only way she could avoid child support? Dad would do well to document how much of her "unlimited visitation" Mom exercises. Because if it's less than every other weekend and one weekday evening... Ding for Mom.

So... the serial adulterer is in between sugar daddies and doesn't have a job. Temporarily the judge has ordered no child support. Maybe the judge is trying to be kind during this transition, giving her a chance to get onto her feet. Or not. What Dad has to do (with the help of a lawyer, if he has one) is show that Mom is able bodied enough to be employed, prove what she could make, in theory - based on prior employment and/or qualifications (education, training) and show this in court so that Mom can be imputed an income, if her unemployment is voluntary. If it can be shown that Mom's unemployment is voluntary... Ding for Mom.

Ding, ding, ding!

Your son is doing what he has to, and should continue doing it.

The judge is giving Mom a chance to be a mensch (which would be great it she reformed, but unlikely), so that when she continues to fail to meet even minimal expectations, the judge can throw the book at her, and there will be no (legally valid) basis for Mom to complain.

Mom decided she didn't want temporary custody. Unless she decides that she wants to be more than a visiting parent, the status quo will be Dad having physical custody, and there will only be a change if she can show a change of circumstance for the children, or Dad is unfit.

Dad will eventually get child support. Mom will have to support herself eventually, and when she does so, Dad can petition for a change in child support. If, in response, she petitions for custody, well... it will be really obvious why, and she will be denied.

Really, just encourage your son to be patient, take the high road, and focus on the best interests of his children.

 

[LdiJ]

I can confirm that Indiana requires a co-parenting class as part of a divorce.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I can confirm that Indiana requires a co-parenting class as part of a divorce.

That's what I thought.

Such classes are a good idea, in theory.

When it is less of a good idea is when one party has abandoned the family and the parent that stayed, caring for the children abandoned by their spouse, has to sit there and be talked down to about the importance of working together and putting the children first.

 

[LdiJ]

That's what I thought.

Such classes are a good idea, in theory.

When it is less of a good idea is when one party has abandoned the family and the parent that stayed, caring for the children abandoned by their spouse, has to sit there and be talked down to about the importance of working together and putting the children first.

Yeah, I have to admit that ones likely a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Just Blue]

I think it needs to be pointed out the info provided is second hand from paternal grandmother/grandfather.

 

[HighwayMan]

I think it needs to be pointed out the info provided is second hand from paternal grandmother/grandfather.

Exactly. The son should be asking his own questions if he cares about the situation. Or better yet, the son needs to get himself a divorce attorney who will handle the case in a professional and competent manner. He can then ask his attorney these questions.

 

[Mrjimbov]

#1. My son already took the co-parenting class. The judge ordered marriage counseling, to be paid by my son, who makes $12/hr and does NOT have insurance.
#2. He has spoke to 2 different attorney's (free initial consult) and both told him if would be $2500 retainer to handle his case. So, a lawyer is out of the question.
#3. My son has been paying his sister-in-law to watch the kids, because she has a day care, and because the kids already know her. SHe and most of his wifes family are on HIS side and the sister went with him on Friday and was willing to testify against her sister on behalf of my son.

Thanks for the advice not2cleverRed!
My son has a note book that he has been keeping notes on everything since they split up. The judge was not interested in seeing the note or the vulgar text messages his wife has sent to him, messages she has sent to (and conversations she has had with) her sister, or the messages she has sent to his new girlfriend (who also attended the court proceedings). And they all 3 told us the same story.

 

[stealth2]

It really would be best for your son to create his own account and ask for himself. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[t74]

The breakup is only a little over 4 months ago. Son does not need a new girlfriend at this time and certainly not one that is so involved with his life as to be attending court with him. He has two small children and a job; he needs to be spending every available hour with them - especailly the 3 yo who has "lost" his/her mother.

Even if support was/is ordered, he should not depend on it for essentials. Too many NCPs do not pay regularly.

You can best help your son by helping him pay for an attorney as well as help with the children while he gets a second job to pay his now larger bills (assuming he did not pay for daycare in the past). You can also help him identify resources in your community for single parents especially if you do not plan to be raising your grandchildren as a parent rather than enjoying them as a grandparent.