Jurisdiction question

[mistoffolees]

Teacher is having extra-curricular communications with students on a regular basis. Not all students, just some. They're playing games over the internet and, to the less game oriented, that means verbal communication as well. (You put on headphones and talk as you play.) "Friend"ing on Facebook, including the posting of pictures with students. Again, not all, just some. Teacher, rather than being with the other adults, payed poker with students on a field trip.

This teacher has a problem with respect. Wonder why?

A quick internet search will show many have a problem with actions such as this. Many school districts are creating rules against the facebook communications between teachers and students along with IM (including the gaming issue) and other rules against fraternization.

I am not a blue nose, nor do I think schools are wonderful and enlightened. This is not merely a sexual coercion problem where we worry about the teacher molesting his students, this is an effectiveness problem and a problem where the teacher puts himself at risk legally and in his career. Students lose faith when some are special and others are not in the teacher play group. This is not good for class morale and will certainly begin gossip about the teacher. All he needs is to start thinking casually about student relationships and interactions and a mistake or two and the students own him.

In the hope to be liked, this teacher is not doing a good job. He needs to step back and hold a more professional demeanor. The best parent is not their kids best friend, the best manager is not the workers' best buddy, the best coach does not hang out with his players, the best teacher keeps a respectable distance. Has that distance been breached here? We only know what the OP has written. I've coached high school sports for many years. (Not currently.) There is no way on God's green earth I would be so familiar with my players they felt it appropriate to pants me. I loved them and they, at least outwardly, loved and respected me. I am (and was) an effective coach. I think the teacher is doing himself and his students a disservice. (And, that is without any nefarious intent on the part of the teacher.)

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions there. You're assuming all sorts of things that you have no way of knowing. How in the world could you possibly reach the conclusion that "this teacher is not doing a good job"???? Heck, we had teachers who were very close to the students and went to Dairy Queen after school with SOME of the students (even buying for them!) and these teachers were some of the most effective teachers around - by any standards. Your conclusion that the teacher is ineffective simply because he associates with the students in non-school time is bizarre.

And it's not OP's job to make the teacher more effective. OP is apparently trying to get the teacher in trouble because s/he doesn't like the teacher's methods. That's wholly inappropriate. Would you like someone reporting you to your supervisor just because they didn't like the way you did your job- with no real evidence to back that up?

It's also interesting that you're blaming the victim, as well. "There is no way on God's green earth I would be so familiar with my players they felt it appropriate to pants me.", etc. It was inappropriate and the school and teacher recognize it as inappropriate. Blaming the teacher for it is bizarre, as well.

 

[stealth2]

My daughter has cell numbers of several of her teachers - male and female. She also does both school and non-school related things with them (i.e. babysitting, she's helping one with a program at his daughter's preschool tomorrow, participates in environmental awareness programs, does fun-runs with them, etc.). Now, admittedly, her school is very small, so the relationships between students and teachers are much tighter than they may be in a larger school. But I can tell you that it would never occur to her, no matter how friendly they are, to pants a teacher. Or any adult. Nor would it have ever occurred to my son to do so. <shrug>

Really, the issue is with the young man who felt it was appropriate behavior, not with the teacher.

 

[Proserpina]

That's the bottom line, stealth.

The kid was in the wrong - period. End of story.

 

[tranquility]

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions there. You're assuming all sorts of things that you have no way of knowing. How in the world could you possibly reach the conclusion that "this teacher is not doing a good job"????

In the first place knowledge and experience about the way the world works. In the second:

This teacher has had many pranks played on him in the past 3 years by other students because they consider him to be one of the guys and yet he cannot seem to understand why he is not respected as a teacher.

At least one parent feels:

This is a train wreck waiting to happen and I want to prevent something more serious from happening in the future while at the same time not punishing my son further. All I want to do is let the teacher know that he cannot blur the lines like this - for his protection as well as for that of the students.

Admittedly she has a fear for her son:

the teacher can file charges in GA and have my 16 year old son arrested for something that occurred in NJ? Or if he wanted to, can he file charges in NJ and have my son arrested in GA? I am a little confused about the jurisdiction issues.

And it's not OP's job to make the teacher more effective.

Sure it is.

It's also interesting that you're blaming the victim, as well. "There is no way on God's green earth I would be so familiar with my players they felt it appropriate to pants me.", etc. It was inappropriate and the school and teacher recognize it as inappropriate. Blaming the teacher for it is bizarre, as well.

I'm focusing on the teacher's behavior which is inappropriate. Because of that inappropriate behavior, a student did a prank. If the teacher leaves his wallet on top of the desk everyday and leaves the classroom with all the students inside all the time, when the wallet turns up missing, the student who took it is a thief, but the teacher is an idiot. He does deserve some blame--even though everyone knows stealing is wrong.

Here, the problem is worse. Kids pants each other. The one who is pants is embarrassed and everyone else laughs. Sometimes, in certain groups, this is the great joke and everyone is trying to get everyone else. Kids start being very aware about who is sneaking up behind them. But, it's a joke. Unlike theft, there is no mala in se here. The teacher IS partially at fault. Because of his choices, because of his actions, a student felt comfortable to do the same joke he does to other students. To say he had no part in creating the problem is bizarre. He's supposed to be the grown-up and it seems he's just one of the fellas.

See also:
http://www.ajc.com/news/facebook-can-mean-face-202238.html
http://www.brookingsregister.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&page=76&story_id=9950
http://www.virtualprofessors.com/teachers-warned-not-to-facebook-friend-students
http://community.lawyers.com/forums/p/106641/512208.aspx
http://www.education.com/magazine/article/Students_Teachers_Social_Networking/

 

[mistoffolees]

In the first place knowledge and experience about the way the world works. In the second:
At least one parent feels:
Admittedly she has a fear for her son:


Sure it is.

I'm focusing on the teacher's behavior which is inappropriate. Because of that inappropriate behavior, a student did a prank. If the teacher leaves his wallet on top of the desk everyday and leaves the classroom with all the students inside all the time, when the wallet turns up missing, the student who took it is a thief, but the teacher is an idiot. He does deserve some blame--even though everyone knows stealing is wrong.

Here, the problem is worse. Kids pants each other. The one who is pants is embarrassed and everyone else laughs. Sometimes, in certain groups, this is the great joke and everyone is trying to get everyone else. Kids start being very aware about who is sneaking up behind them. But, it's a joke. Unlike theft, there is no mala in se here. The teacher IS partially at fault. Because of his choices, because of his actions, a student felt comfortable to do the same joke he does to other students. To say he had no part in creating the problem is bizarre. He's supposed to be the grown-up and it seems he's just one of the fellas.

See also:
Facebook can mean face time with school principals | ajc.com
Brookings Register School board explores 'no fraternization' rules
Teachers Warned Not to Facebook ?Friend? Students | Virtual Professors
Teacher Fired For Defending Himself/Knowing too Much - Lawyers.com Community
Should Students and Teachers Be Online "Friends"? | Education.com

Sure..... And a rape victim is partially at fault for wearing sexy clothes, too. :roll eyes:

There's nothing there but your opinion and OP's opinion that the teacher is too involved with the students. Wrecking his career just because you don't like a teacher trying to develop rapport with the students is absurd.

Your URLs include things like:
"The photos in question showed Payne in pubs and beer gardens while on summer vacation. In a comment on her Facebook page, Payne announced was headed out to play a game called "Crazy Bitch Bingo.""
If you don't see the difference between that and what OP's teacher did, then there's no point in even having the discussion.

The rest of them are simply misguided, paranoid posts from school boards and admins who object to any contact between students and teachers outside of school - with no evidence nor rational justification. Just "we think it's bad, so we're going to ban it".

As others and I have pointed out, many really great teachers have contact with their students outside of school. Heck, I spent half a year staying with my speech coach when my parents had to move. What about kids whose parents are teachers? Are they supposed to stop all contact outside of school hours? What about next-door-neighbors? Should they pretend the teacher doesn't exist? Or what about sports coaches? When they go to a tournament, the coach shouldn't even talk to the student unless they're on the field?

 

[stealth2]

My daughter talks to her teachers outside of school quite frequently. Sometimes it has to do with class/team, sometimes not. Heck - she's been CAMPING with her teachers. Sure, they goof around, but she knows the boundaries with adults. 'Cause, funnily enough? She had a parent teach them to her.

 

[tranquility]

Sure..... And a rape victim is partially at fault for wearing sexy clothes, too. :roll eyes:

Please try not to compare rape and a joke. Especially when I spent some time trying to show how some things are just wrong and other things depend on the situation. Rape is wrong. Pulling down the pants of a peer is a joke. Should it be done? No. But it is. All the time and in schools around the world.

There's nothing there but your opinion and OP's opinion that the teacher is too involved with the students. Wrecking his career just because you don't like a teacher trying to develop rapport with the students is absurd.

Yet, we see all kinds of school boards and teacher organizations discuss this very issue and come down on a different side from you. That is more than nothing. It shows a number of people have concerns about this behavior. Supervisors, teaching organizations and parents all are thinking about this. Some certainly don't think it is wrong. But all warn teachers to be careful.

Also, this is far more than rapport. It's gotten to the point where there may be real world consequences to students. Besides, how is talking to the principal going to ruin the teacher's career? (Unless there are specific rules against the behavior which would completely negate any argument you have.) The supervisor is told, he thinks about it and counsels the teacher on appropriate behavior. Problem solved! That's the way grown-ups behave. We share our concerns and the reasons why and avoid rolling eyes when we have some difference of opinion.

The rest of them are simply misguided, paranoid posts from school boards and admins who object to any contact between students and teachers outside of school - with no evidence nor rational justification. Just "we think it's bad, so we're going to ban it".

I see. You must have missed the lawyer's page and the page of Education.com and the page of virtualprofessors. But, after reading them, come back and tell us why they are all misguided too.

What everyone seems to be missing when they tell the stories of wonderful teachers taking them out for ice cream is:

Bad things have happened. We have a mother worried about her son having criminal charges against him for a prank. That prank is the direct result of the teacher's familiarity with the student.

I think things are going to get worse and not better.